Zakir Hussain Baptises James White


Bismillahir Rahmanir Raheem
بِسۡمِ ٱللهِ ٱلرَّحۡمَـٰنِ ٱلرَّحِيمِ ,

Well, that didn’t take long! The day after James White’s debate with Br. Zakir Hussain (details here, audio stream here, or right click ‘save as’ to download here), James released an article conceding to his clear ineptitude, inability to respond to well founded research and lack of basic comprehension skills. By basic I mean not being able to find a word and correctly identify its meaning, even after having used a computer to search for it (even though he’s a self claimed expert on the Greek language). I really must question not only his basic comprehension skills, but his lazy and hypocritical attitude as well. Yet, before I do so, let’s examine his statements:

First, having quoted John 1:1 in Greek a few thousand times in my life, I think I ended up trying out for a spot on the TBN team at one point last night, but without an interpreter. My apologies.

Ask a 3 year old Muslim to recite 7 ayat from Surah Fatihah and they would be able to do so with perfect pronunciation (tajweed), which I can demonstrate as being possible here and here, ask James White to repeat something he’s done several thousand times and he can’t. What’s worse is that James White even released a video condemning Shaykh Ahmad Deedat for not pronouncing the Greek of John 1:1 correctly, but James himself could not do so. In the video, he says:

Ahmad Deedat’s comments on John 1:1 were inaccurate and incorrect, you will remember that I documented that he didn’t even have the proper Greek terms…..he was actually unable to handle the Greek language, he claimed to be able to do so…..I’m not sure how you are able to properly understand his (Deedat’s arguments) upon not being able to read the language…..in the process he demonstrates that he (the person in the video, not Deedat) cannot read Greek…..he doesn’t known the difference between a v and a nu , he regularly mispronounces the words and he (the person in the video, not Deedat) just does not know the language.

Unfortunately for James, it seems as if his hypocrisy has shown through his facade of using the Greek language. If he can produce a 9 minute video condemning Shaykh Ahmad Deedat (who never formally studied Greek), as opposed to James claiming to have studied Greek and using one verse’s Greek ‘a few thousand times‘, that either means James has to produce a video condemning himself while retracting the video about Shaykh Ahmad Deedat, or James has to concede that he is largely uneducated in this field. This isn’t a situation of ‘either or’, but a situation of ‘and’. Mr. White’s pretentious use of the Greek language was also exposed by myself earlier in this earlier post. What’s worse is that he can’t read Greek by himself, as James has stated that he needs an interpreter as he wrote himself (as seen above).

 Anyway, Zakir was talking at the speed of sound in the rebuttal period (as my notes show) and it was next to impossible to keep up with the references as they flew by.

James was unable to keep up with the vast amounts of information that Br. Zakir used in his presentation, not only was James unable to match his level of research, or keep up with Br. Zakir’s arguments, James later concedes that he intentionally refused (much like a petulant child) to respond to several of the brother’s arguments. Let’s examine James’ inability to properly search for a word, he writes and I quote:

At one point he raised the issue of the Matthean reference to the prophecy (2:23) about the Nazarene. I did a quick search on my computer looking for the right reference and…got the wrong one in my haste.

As opposed to this baby who can actually use an iPhone to search for a song (you can see the baby scrolling through a list and then selecting what it wants; something which James seems unable to do!):

It’s really embarrassing to note that this man is supposed to be, keyword: ‘supposed’ to be, an intellectual of the Christian religion, a representative of their faith and he’s unable to do something for which he condemns others for. Reminds me very much of Matthew 7:1-5:

“Do not judge, or you too will be judged. For in the same way you judge others, you will be judged, and with the measure you use, it will be measured to you.“Why do you look at the speck of sawdust in your brother’s eye and pay no attention to the plank in your own eye? How can you say to your brother, ‘Let me take the speck out of your eye,’ when all the time there is a plank in your own eye? You hypocrite, first take the plank out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to remove the speck from your brother’s eye.

Sad to say this James, but this is one time you’re going to have to face the music. James then goes on to say this:

 I did a quick search on my computer looking for the right reference and…got the wrong one in my haste. Oh, I got “branch” alright, but I wrote down the reference below what I wanted in the search list, Isaiah 14:19. My apologies. I didn’t have time to read but a single line, saw “rejected branch,” and scribbled it down.

At this point, you must be questioning James’ rationale. James searches for a word, turns out to be the wrong one, he sees a word/ phrase that looks similar to what he wanted to use and decides to give up on academic standards and just ‘wings it’, his reasoning can be seen as the equivalent to another popular right wing nut, Bill O Reilly! See his rant here:

James then ends that portion of the article with this statement:

 I will set up a donation fund for some prescription mid-range reading glasses.

James, I think you need more than glasses. There are many vocational schools that can help you with your comprehension problem, but as for your integrity and dignity, I can offer you nothing but a broom to sweep the fragments of them off of the floor (I’m sort of cheap, get the scoop yourself).

James then decided to use the age old tactic of anti-intellectual argumentation, by generalizing his opponent’s argument and then belittling his generalization:

Finally, I did not get into the issue of the wavy hair and light skin because, as anyone can see, that kind of description could have been applied to any number of the Muslims attending the debate that night, and even some of the Christians.

This is a problem, as James betrays his own methodology of searching for prophecies of Jesus the Christ in the Jewish Tanach. For example, to witness James’ double standards, in this debate with Br. Shabbir Ali, James refers to the physical description of Christ as a ‘key prophecy’, which allegedly foretold of his ‘coming’. However, apparently when a Muslim uses the same methodology of referring to a ‘physical description’, it’s belittled by James. Why can’t the argument James sources from Deuteronomy also be applied to any of the other Jewish Messiahs? Why his God? Is that not confirmation bias? James has once again betrayed any form of dignity. He continues:

the only real issue is whether the term machamad is actually the name of Muhammad. I obviously argue that such a connection is absurd.

On the same note, David is not Dawud, Echad is not Ahad, Abraham is not Ibrahim, Moses is not Musa, Iyov is not Ayub, Ketuvim is not Kutub, Miriam is not Maryam, of course, such relations are just ‘absurd’, and have nothing to do with two Semitic languages mirroring each other! He continues (to his own peril):

Utilizing verbal roots in this fashion can be used to prove anything, as I have noted already by finding both Shabir Ally and Zakir Hussain in the Old Testament using the same methodology.

Apparently James find such a method quite silly, yet ask him what Shemot (Exodus 3:14) is supposed to mean (note: it’s a series of verbs: ‘ehyeh asher ehyeh’ – I will be who I will be – future perfect tense) and that’s supposed to mean Ego Emi (a present tense statement), referring to Christ’s deity. As opposed to an actual name being used, as is clearly demonstrated above. James then concedes to making more mistakes, it just doesn’t get any better for him:

 But I did want to note two things for the sake of accuracy once again. First, at least two people have mentioned to me that I was in error on an ABN show regarding the root H M D in either Arabic or Hebrew, and I may have been, I haven’t taken the time to go back and try to find the comments.

After being corrected by two persons, and after making grievous mistakes and spreading misinformation on live TV, James still did not review his statements, nor did he try to find what was wrong with his presentation, yet he admits to using the same incorrect information during his debate:

 I do recall doing a program on a particular video on YouTube (well, we quoted material from it anyway)

In ending, James’ article is nothing short of a direct result of being baptised by Br. Zakir. The term ‘baptised’ simply means to be ‘whelmed’ that is, ‘overwhelmed’ (see Strong’s Greek Lexicon: G907, ‘βαπτίζω‘). James White, was baptised into conceding that he was misinformed, deceitful and that he demonstrated clear cut pseudo-intellectualism. Br. Zakir most certainly did excellent to evoke such emotions from James White. Please do check out his debate, you will not be disappointed.

wa Allaahu Alam,
and Allaah knows best.

6 comments

  • Hi
    I’m sorry but your Muslim brother in his debate with Dr White was totally outclassed, I’m not a debater but I would done a better job. He didn’t even stick to the topic in question and started talking about almost everything in his rebuttal why? Well it must be because he didn’t have anything to say….he never quoted any of the Gnostic gospels which as Christians we know to be false…any how did they end up in the Koran?

    Your Muslim brother kept mentioning he had sources….I’m still waiting to hear what they are.

    At least James White has the ability to admit when he is wrong about something….but your Muslim brother was absolutely dealt with he was out of his depth…he should have taken on someone more on his level.

    Thanks

  • Hi there,

    I’m sorry, but unlike James, Br. Zakir as admitted by Mr. White himself, used numerous academic sources and fully supported his argumentation throughout their discourse. I know you are a Christian and therefore your support would be behind Mr. White and I’m not going to discredit you for doing so, that’s your choice but when it came to this debate, James has publicly conceded to being/ doing:

    1. Unable to grasp all the references as used by the brother.
    2. That he ignored certain arguments.
    3. That he used incorrect information from an error filled Youtube video.

    That places Br. Zakir on intellectually sound ground, while James is on shaky ground. As for sticking on the topic, everything Br. Zakir said, was in relation to the topic, I didn’t see or note anything which was out of relation. Why would you expect him to quote the gnostic gospels, when the debate topic is centered on the Bible? Do you have any gnostic gospels in your Bible? To have done so would have been to go outside of the topic, I heard when James raised this same point and had to wonder if he was paying attention to the title of the debate! Such a silly premise! I don’t see how any gnostic gospels ended up in the Qur’an, sorry, but unless you have empirical evidences besides wild theories, you’ve lost me on that one.

    James himself acknowledged the numerous sources the Br. had and that he could not have kept up with writing them all down in his notes. So are James and I lying, or are you!?

    Don’t see how Br. Zakir dealt with someone who was out of his depth, as opposed to James ‘supposedly’ dealing with someone ‘not on his level’, when James himself fell prey to numerous inefficiencies. That either means James lowered his own stature to purposely make those errors, or Br. Zakir whooped him.

    – Br. Ijaz.

  • I agree that White was demolished. Btw what do you say to White’s claim that the word Machmed (its actually pronounced as “Muhammad”/”Mahamad”) is used because of poetry, as it has a “clear sound” affect?
    And what about saying it is an adjective, not known?

  • An excellent debate. James White got horribly “baptised” in this debate. My goodness.

  • Hi ljad Ahmed
    I want to see his sources that prove the prophet is in the bible i can so easily use the prophet Elijah to say he is like Moses.

    Elijah just like Moses…

    Confronted Ahab (1 Kings 17:1)

    Confronted Pharaoh (Exod. 5:1)

    Fled into the wilderness fearing for his life (1 Kings 19:3)

    Fled into the wilderness fearing for his life (Exod. 2:15)

    Miraculously fed “…bread and meat in the morning and bread and meat in the evening…” (1 Kings 17:6)

    Miraculously fed “…meat to eat in the evening, and bread to the full in the morning…” (Exod. 16:8, 12)

    Spoke authoritatively for the Lord in his own name (1 Kings 17:1)

    Spoke authoritatively for the Lord in his own name (Deut. 5:1)

    Gathered all Israel to Mount Carmel (1 Kings 18:19)

    Gathered all Israel to Mount Sinai (Exod. 19:17)

    Combated the prophets of Ba’al (1 Kings 18:20-40)

    Combated the magicians of Pharaoh (Exod. 7:8-13, 20-22; 8:1-7)

    Successful in his intercession for Israel to the God of Abraham, Isaac and Israel (1 Kings 18:36-39)

    Successful in his intercession for Israel to the God of Abraham, Isaac and Israel (Exod. 32:11-14)

    Elijah took twelve stones at Carmel “…according to the number of the tribes of the sons of Jacob…” (1 Kings 18:30-32)

    Moses had twelve pillars set up at Sinai “…corresponding to the twelve tribes of Israel…” (Exod. 24:4)

    The Lord accepted Elijah’s offering by sending fire from heaven and consuming it completely. The people threw themselves down on their faces. (1 Kings 18:36-39)

    The Lord accepted Moses and Aaron’s offering by sending fire from heaven and consuming it completely. The people threw themselves down on their faces. (Lev. 9:22-24)

    By Elijah’s authority 3 000 idolatrous prophets were slain (1 Kings 18:40)

    By Moses’ authority 3 000 idolaters were slain (Exod. 32:25-29)

    After killing the prophets of Ba’al Elijah climbed Carmel to pray. (1 Kings 18:42)

    After killing the idolaters Moses climbed Sinai to pray (Exod. 32:30)

    Went without food for forty days and forty nights (1 Kings 19:8)

    Went without food for forty days and forty nights (Exod. 34:38; Deut. 9:9)

    Elijah (re)commissioned at Horeb (=Sinai) (1 Kings 19)

    Moses commissioned at Sinai (Exod. 3)

    Elijah was in “the cave” on Horeb (=Sinai) when the Lord “passed by” (1 Kings 19: 9-11)

    Moses was hidden “in the cleft of the rock” when the Lord passed by Sinai. (Exod. 33:21-23)

    Elijah saw storm, wind, an earthquake and fire upon Horeb (=Sinai). (1 Kings 19:11-12)

    Moses saw storm, wind, an earthquake and fire upon Sinai. (Exod. 19:16-20; 20:18; Deut. 4:11; 5:22-27).

    Prayed that he might die. (1 Kings 19:1-4)

    Prayed that he might die. (Num. 11:10-15).

    The Lord brought down fire from heaven upon his enemies. (2 Kings 1:9-12)

    The Lord brought down fire from heaven upon those who rebelled against him. (Num. 16; cf. Lev. 10:1-3)

    Elijah parted the waters of the Jordan by striking the waters with his cloak and passed over on dry ground. (2 Kings 2:8)

    Moses parted the waters of the Red Sea by stretching out his staff and passed over on dry ground. (Exod. 14:16, 21-22)

    His successor was one who had served him and came to resemble him in many ways, parting the waters of the Jordan as he had. ( 2 Kings 2)

    His successor was one who had served him and came to resemble him in many ways, parting the waters of the Jordan as he had the Red Sea. (Josh. 3)

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