Since the Qur’an Is 600 Years After Jesus – Is It An Unreliable Witness?
Christians often argue that since the Qur’an is 600 years after Jesus, it is a less reliable witness than the New Testament. How do we respond to this?
Consistency is key here, and the response is quite simple. The Christian accepts the first five books of the Old Testament which are usually attributed to Moses (عليه السلام). Yet, these books contain histories ranging from hundreds of years to thousands of years before Moses (عليه السلام) is alleged to have written them. Some Christians consider the accounts in Genesis 1 regarding the creation of the universe to be a historical account. Others consider it to be a phenomenological rendition of the creation of the universe. Either way, Christians accept these accounts as accurate despite the distance (disparity) between the time of Moses (عليه السلام) and that of the creation of the universe.
Consistency is key. Moses (عليه السلام) lived several generations removed from that of Noah (عليه السلام). Yet Christians accept and view the account of Noah (عليه السلام) in the Old Testament as a historical witness. The account of Noah (عليه السلام) is far more than 600 years between himself and Moses (عليه السلام) , yet Christians do not doubt an iota of what the Old Testament says. If we apply the scales of consistency regarding this topic, it would be seen that Christians do not adhere to a sensible methodology for judging what is and what is not historical. Theologically speaking, when it comes to matters of revelation, time is irrelevant. Since God is all knowing, it can be inferred that when He inspired Moses or Muhammad (عليه السلام) to write about the past, then it is assumed that what they wrote was historically accurate.
If missionaries applied the same criteria to their scriptures, they’d have to deny them as well as declare them as being historically inaccurate due to the gaps of time between the events themselves and the later authorship which recounted them. It should also stand to reason that not all accounts closest to an incident would be accurate, and that there exists the possibility of a later writing based on a stronger oral tradition. In such a case, the closest account may be inaccurate but the later writing could be more accurate. In conclusion, this is a very poor argument and it is an excellent example of poor thought processes.
This answer is only in response to the argument of time being used, that is, the number of years between Muhammad (peace be upon him) and Jesus (‘alayhi as salam). It isn’t about whether Muslims consider the New Testament historical, or if Christians consider the Qur’an historical, or whether the histories of either writing corresponds with each other. This answer is only in response to the argument by Christians that 600 years is a factor in accepting or rejecting history.
and God knows best.
I don’t think that is the argument, what we argue is Prophet Muhammad didn’t walk with Jesus and so he did not see hear or touch Jesus.
The Angel Gabriel dictated to Muhammad that Jesus didn’t die, my question is how does Muhammad know that was the Angel was Gabriel.
but second century christians were saying that their beliefs went back to the apostles and they were pulling out the “it must have existed in oral sayings in the first century”
when we ask an apologist, “how do you know the interrogation of jesus by pilate took place when it was behind doors?” or “how do you know about what secret conversations matthew heard between the romans and the jews when matthew doesn’t even say he was there?”
christian apologists like second century christians assume first century links.
i quote :
Bart Ehrman notes that “arguably the most distinctive feature of the early Christian literature is the degree to which it was forged.”  Consider for example Eusebius’ discussion of Serapion’s acceptance of the Gospel of Peter (H.E. 4.12.2). Serapion accepted the gospel because it was written by Peter, and only later rejected it, not because of it’s questionable authorship but instead because of it’s heretical teachings. Literary pseudepigrapha was widespread in first century Judaism (cf. 1 Enoch, 2 Baruch, etc.). Literary pseudepigrapha was widespread in first and second century Christianity (as argued above).
I think one model that makes reasonable sense of this phenomena is that early doctrinal and power disputes within the church led to the use of weaponized forgery and counterforgery. In the context of a diverse early church (we have good evidence of this) spread out over large distances without good methods of documentary verification pseudepigraphy could thrive. The forgers knew what they were doing; the deceived were indeed deceived (but sometimes perhaps with some wishful thinking on their part.) Pseudepigrapha flourished in first century Judaism with a similar social environment but a different set of theological arguments. For a more complete argument, cf. Dr. Ehrmans’ book, Forgery and Counterforgery.
“what we argue is Prophet Muhammad didn’t walk with jesus and so he did not see hear or touch Jesus.”
i will change this sentence
“what we argue is that paul didn’t walk with Jesus and so he did not see hear or touch jesus.”
here is where it starts getting interesting
It comes from Galatians 1:6-9
6 I marvel that ye are so soon removed from Him, that called you into the grace of Christ, for another gospel.
7 For this is not another; but there are some who trouble you and would pervert the Gospel of Christ.
8 But should we, or an angel from Heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached to you, let him be accursed.
9 As we said before, so say I now again: If any man preach any other gospel unto you than that which ye have received, let him be accursed!
And 2 Corinthians 11:3-4
3 But I fear lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtlety, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ.
4 For if he that cometh preacheth another Jesus whom we have not preached, or if ye receive another spirit which ye have not received, or another gospel which ye have not accepted, ye might well bear with him.
your religion has many spirits which told christians to do evil things such as lie in the name of god
the earliest liar was called peter who swore in yhwhs name that he didn’t know jesus.
they say that a man is known by his character and peters characteristic trait has lies in it.
paul is obviously unhappy that another christ is preached. he has to repeat again and again and again that he is selling a crucified god who divested his powers. again and again and again.
my question is : who is this other jesus? the one that preach the law? do christs that preach the law get crucified?
why did paul repeat himself again and again about his crucified god when christians tell us he wouldn’t repeat things people ALREADY knew?
is there at least some indication that pauls crucified god is in competition to another jesus?
look how PISSED paul sounds , ” or an angel from heaven…” . note an angel from hell, but an angel from heaven.
why would this guy need to repeat again and again that his god had DIED? why unless there were early believers saying the COMPLETE opposite?
Yeah that’s the same Peter that stood on the day of Pentecost and preached before all the people, which was after Jesus appeared to the disciples.
Abraham lied…Issac lied…Daivd lied…men lie.
The other Jesus that Paul is the Jesus that Jehovah witnesses and Muslims and Mormons made up to suit their beliefs.
Jehovah witness say Jesus is the Archangel Michael.
Mormons say that Jesus was the brother of the devil
Muslims say that Jesus was just a prophet that didn’t die on the cross.
Yes my friend Paul said even if an angel from heaven…yes Muslims take note because no God from heaven spoke to your prophet…but an angel…and this Angel was not Gabriel because this Angel spoke of another Jesus.
Did God tell prophet Muhammad that Jesus didn’t die on the cross or was it an angel?
“eah that’s the same Peter that stood on the day of Pentecost and preached before all the people, which was after Jesus appeared to the disciples.
Abraham lied…Issac lied…Daivd lied…men lie.”
1. the pnuema you worship did not convince all the disciples. matthew said “some doubted”
so they were intelligent enough to doubt this unknown pagan spirit.
“you will see the son of man…” high priest saw no pnuema or spirit
“evil and adulterous generation seeketh a sign, no sign shall be given to it except…”
no sign was seen, no pagan pnuema was seen. original jewish christians were destroyed in jerusalem and christians received many pnuemas which told them to lie in gods name. 1st century and 2nd century.
“Yes my friend Paul said even if an angel from heaven…yes Muslims take note because no God from heaven spoke to your prophet…but an angel…and this Angel was not Gabriel because this Angel spoke of another Jesus.”
you never talk about the apostates who left pauls pagan pnuema for other pnuemas, why not? why are you not interested in talking about why people became apostates? paul, in his boast, says not even a good angel FROM heaven… indicating that this guy is aware that he is having problems bringing people to his pagan pnuema.
i will give you heavy evidence that the pnuema you worship is an evil and spirit
Mark 13:22, Matthew 24:24, and 2 Thessalonians 2:9
enough proof that many pnuemas in these writers days could do miraculous stuff and deceive christians.
So Jesus called them over to him and began to speak to them in parables: “How can Satan drive out Satan?
If a kingdom is divided against itself, that kingdom cannot stand.
If a house is divided against itself, that house cannot stand.
jesus/pnuema does what satan does:
49 “I came to bring fire to the earth, and how I wish it were already kindled!
51 Do you think that I have come to bring peace to the earth? No, I tell you, but rather division! 52 From now on five in one household will be divided, three against two and two against three; 53 they will be divided:
father against son
and son against father,
mother against daughter
and daughter against mother,
mother-in-law against her daughter-in-law
and daughter-in-law against mother-in-law.”
jesus: And if Satan opposes himself and is divided, he cannot stand; his end has come.
crucifixion of jesus:
33 When it was noon, darkness came over the whole land[h] until three in the afternoon. 34 At three o’clock Jesus cried out with a loud voice, “Eloi, Eloi, lema sabachthani?” which means, “My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?”[i]35 When some of the bystanders heard it, they said, “Listen, he is calling for Elijah.” 36 And someone ran, filled a sponge with sour wine, put it on a stick, and gave it to him to drink, saying, “Wait, let us see whether Elijah will come to take him down.” 37 Then Jesus gave a loud cry and breathed his last.
In fact, no one can enter a strong man’s house without first tying him up. Then he can plunder the strong man’s house.
the romans nailed/tied jesus
attach or fasten with string or similar cord.
“Gabriel tied up his horse”
synonyms: bind, tie up, tether, hitch, strap, truss, fetter, rope, chain, make fast,moor, lash, attach, fasten, fix, secure, join, connect, link, couple
“they tied Max to a chair”
restrict or limit (someone) to a particular situation or place.
when jesus was on the cross, why did the jews forget to sing “And if Satan opposes himself and is divided, he cannot stand; his end has come. ”
dc, think about the pnuema you worship . think about it carefully. very very carefully.
“Yeah that’s the same Peter that stood on the day of Pentecost and ”
your pnuema appears as a gardener and sometimes completely unrecognisable. christians visualize a white man hanging off a cross. these are the shapes of satan. those who have experiences of marian apparitions, you will attack and say that they are not receiving vision from god. think about the pagan pnuema you worship. would god almighty REALLY come out NAKED wearing linen clothing? you think this is what the creator would do? showing himself to prostitutes half naked? would you bow before half naked human being if he had popped back to life after 10 days? what are you saying about god?
” Peter that stood on the day of Pentecost”
and told jews to their faces that they were guilty of killing god almighty? i tell you the truth everybody would have told peter to his face that the pnuema filling him was satan.
“you killed the messiah” jews happily accepted? lies mate, your pnuema is a lie.