Why is your critique of Jay Smith’s statements not on this site?

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I’ve been getting a lot of questions concerning the validity of a link in circulation of a Google Doc’s document purported to be from me concerning a critique of Jay Smith’s mistakes and deceits during his recent debate with Dr. Shabir. I would like to confirm that I am the author of that document in circulation. Initially, I had not planned to publish it until I was finished writing it. However, as the document got larger and as many were asking when it would be released, I decided to make public a draft of the article I was preparing on the subject matter. As with any draft, there are typos, incomplete information, rough photos of portions of book quotes that have not been transcribed, differences in citation styling, etc. While the information in the document is accurate, and the citations also accurate, I don’t think that the current version is the final version which would be published on this site.

I have had a few people read it over and check for errors or incorrect responses. No one has found any issues with the contents of the draft so far. This document will take some time to complete. This is due to the tedious effort of having to listen carefully to Jay’s statements, followed by transcribing them and finally citing the time of the video in which he makes those statements. So it involves listening to a 1 minute talk, a number of times which runs into quite a number of minutes per mistake he makes. Then I have to get the relevant quotes and references needed to respond to his deceits, which also takes time. There is also the problem of Jay never citing his works from which he takes his claims from. He’s dropped a number of names, but doesn’t mention which journal, paper, study or book they’re from. Luckily I’m quite familiar with the authors he mentioned and I know where he’s gotten several of his claims from.

It’s honestly quite frustrating to listen to him say something, reference a speaker as a source, go to that source and find the author saying the complete opposite. I’ve tried to be very fair with Jay and assume he may have misread or misspoke, maybe he was nervous and said things he shouldn’t have said. Despite doing so, I have come to the conclusion that he’s intentionally not referencing his sources of information, as they directly contradict and disagree with his claims. This also explains why Dr. Shabir did not choose to critique Jay’s claims as they are so fanciful and inaccurate, the goodly Dr. would have spent 100% of his speaking time on correcting Jay, than speaking on the topic itself. I have the documents that Dr. Shabir circulated during the debate, which the attendees received. I’ll upload them and place links for them in a separate post.

I’d like to take this opportunity to ask that if anyone is familiar with the subject matter, to go through my response to Jay Smith and offer their criticisms or advice. There are two versions of the draft, one version has reached error #20, while the public draft has reached #13. I update the public draft in batches, not after every update made to the private draft. This is so that I can manage my progress as I go along, without publishing information which may be inaccurate or unreliable. I’m making sure that every quote I reference is duly cited and in cases where possible – I attempt to link to the source. Due to real world difficulties, I can’t dedicate much time per day to completing the article. So progress on some days would be more than progress on other days. I’ve seen criticism from some Christians that I haven’t responded to all of Jay’s arguments and I’d like to indicate to such people that this is a work in progress and not yet complete or finalized in any way.

I do not have a scheduled completion date, but most likely the article would be completed before Monday the 6th. While I’m thankful the document is getting a significant amount of views and is being circulated by a large number of people, I do hope that when the finalized article is published, that many more can benefit from it at that time. There have been different ideas as to what the next step is. Some have asked if I have sent Jay any of these questions from the document – I have, it was sent to him after the debate through a friend attending the debate, however he opted not to reply to them. Some have asked if it will be sent to him and my response to this is that I believe he was already made aware of the document. Others have asked why Dr. Shabir has chosen not to reply to Jay’s claims or if I’m writing this on behalf of Dr. Shabir. I suggest that if one wants to question the reasons for the Dr.’s actions that they send him an email themselves. I would like to make it clear that he has not asked me to do this and I am unaware as to whether he knows about this document or not.

I will try to complete it as quickly as I can, but I ask for your prayers and patience during this time.

and Allaah knows best.

Attacks on Muslims Increase: American and Australian Incidents

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Horrifying news out of Australia yesterday. A Muslim woman was attacked by a male assailant for being Muslim in appearance. The woman was grabbed by the neck and hair, then repeatedly and violently slammed into the train’s carriage. He continued to scream and shout anti-Muslim and racial slurs at her while continuing to physically harm her. As the train approach the station, he threw her off of the train, severely hurting her. Read shocking and terrifying full news report here

Another video, also taken this week in midtown New York features a group of Muslim women being insulted, and violently screamed at by another male assailant. The language in the video is unsuitable for minors and those sensitive to abusive terms. Click here to see the Live Leak video. These attacks will continue to grow as more rhetoric against Muslims is published in the media. It is the duty of the males in the Muslim community to accompany the women of our Ummah, so that we may be able to the best of our legal ability escort and thereby protect them during these times.

The disturbing trend is that these attacks are carried out by males against females and almost never by males against males. I do not know what these aggressive sycophants are capable of and it is clear they will prey on the women in our communities, even if they are in large groups as seen in the Live Leak video above. These attacks are random and without provocation, where even in public areas our women can still be attacked. Safety in numbers does not guarantee that our mothers and sisters will be safe. So I encourage the males in our community to be a bit more aware and careful with our women and I hope that these instances do not escalate any further.

We must however, continue to observe this growing trend of attacks with close and pedantic attention. It would be helpful for Imams and Muslim Organizations in areas where hostility has historically been expressed or where tensions have recently escalated to consult with their local Police Departments and to have consultations with other community groups to foster goodwill and to raise some awareness of this growing issue. If you or someone you know has been attacked verbally or otherwise, please contact your local Police Department and inform them of the location and the threat you have experienced. Silence is not an option in these times and it is necessary for us to be vigilant in our affairs.

and Allaah knows best.

Pastor Gives Congregation Miracle Fuel to Drink

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This video is very interesting. A Pastor claims to have changed fuel to pineapple juice in front of his congregation. He then called Christians to come up and drink the fuel and asks them what it tastes like. I did not expect this to continue the way it did. A young girl approaches him and I was fully convinced she was disabled in someway. Then a group of women walk up to him in the same way. I found it odd that the only people to walk up to him were disabled. It turns out, they were possessed by the Holy Spirit! I guess it’s easy to confuse walking as if they are mentally and physically disabled while high on bath salts with being possessed by the Holy Spirit. It got worse though, they began to fight each other for the bottle and when he put the microphone near them to ask what it tasted like, they began to scream and moan and wail and speak gibberish, or as some would call it, speaking in tongues. I don’t think this is representative of all Christians, but this is certainly one of the craziest things I’ve seen Christians do…..

http://www.worldstarhiphop.com/videos/video.php?v=wshhxju0vsE7U47364U2

and God knows best.

Mari Kaimo: Religious Beliefs Not to be Discussed in Group About Religious Discussion

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I’m not exactly sure if I’ve lost my sanity or if I’m misunderstanding something. Let’s take a look at this group’s definition:

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If I’m reading this correctly, this is a group created for the purpose of Muslim and Christian Discussion. Just to ensure I’m understanding this, I checked the group’s “about” definition:

 

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I was a bit surprised while scrolling through my newsfeed to see the following:

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An Anglo-Christian person being removed for heresy, in a group which its purpose is to discuss religious belief…..that’s….odd? So I decided to look a bit closer:

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Mari Kaimo wastes no time, if you reject the Bible – you’re a heretic, which is odd in a group that is dedicated to Christian and Muslim dialogue. It suddenly made sense why I could find at most 1 or 2 active Muslims commenting in the group. They’ve been banning Muslims in a Christian-Muslim religious dialogue group because to them, Muslim beliefs were heretical.

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Surely, this “Preacher” and friend of Shamoun would know that in a dialogue group about religion, there would be users who practised different religions in all their forms and differences. Surely? I guess not:

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Where is this leading…?

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I had just one reaction, this just sums it up entirely:

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I’ve seen some pretty ridiculous things in my life. This is by far, one of the single most absurd things I have ever had the displeasure of witnessing. I probably stared at my screen for a few minutes, in sheer awe at the line of reasoning being played out in front of me. To recap….., this is a group created for the purpose of inter-faith dialogue and discussion. However, if you practise a religion which Christianity (as believed in by Mari Kaimo) disagrees with, you’re going to be kicked out/ removed. Surely, there are smarter people out there in the world. I’ve said it once before and I’ll say it again, this guy is a walking, talking, breathing contradiction inside and out. I pray that this is bad sarcasm at work, there is nothing, no excuse that can allow anyone to rationalize the absurdity of such a situation. If this is anything to go by, I thank God that these are the Christian Apologists and Missionaries that currently lead the Christian faith. They have made our job of conveying Islam so much easier. With people like these, there is no question as to why so many Christians quite literally get frustrated and leave the faith. I feel embarrassed for the Christian community because of this guy, in no way does this person represent a religion with 2000 years worth of study behind it.

and God surely, very surely, knows best.

A Chat with Mari Kaimo

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[Update]: After posting this article and then posting another article about a very absurd incident in the group, a number of missionaries and Muslims who I’m acquainted with indicated to me that they have had the same experience with this individual and have posited he may have issues or so to speak. I have since left the group, and do not wish to comment on his person any longer. This was a very profitable experience for me and I encourage Muslims to use the behaviour and example of Mr. Kaimo to further the cause of Islam.

I joined a Facebook group two nights ago without thinking much of it. Turned out it was one of those “debate” groups. You know the kind, 100 links a day, endless arguing, countless adding of friends to get people to like their comments, posts demeaning and insulting this faith and that faith. I wasn’t interested, didn’t care much for it, checked it out, joined a discussion or two and went on my merry way. Wake up the next morning to find a tag of myself in the group with 200 comments on a discussion I’ve yet to comment on. That was quite the surprise! In the time I took my nightly nap, some bloke searched my name, found a few Christian blog posts about me and as it turns out, I’m Satan incarnate! That was news to me, but hey, we learn something about ourselves everyday…..

In any case, I don’t find myself “debating” on Facebook anymore as it’s a bit difficult to count shouting matches as debates. These days I’ll probably shoot off a message to Pastor Samuel Green, maybe have a chat or two with him (he’s really pleasant once you get to know him), and have a fruitful discussion with someone educated about their own religion. Maybe have a discussion via an email thread with a Pastor or Missionary, notable names in the debate and dialogue profession that aren’t concerned about shouting matches. People that can learn from me, and I from them. So, when I saw this post with 200 comments I had no intention of jumping into that frenzy. People who read years old blog posts about Missionaries who are odds with me, suddenly knew me better than myself! So as it turned out, the guy that made the post was Mari Kaimo – nobody I knew but apparently a friend of Shamoun and company, along with being a cast member of some sort for the 700 Club in Asia. He was out for blood, I’m a “condescending, no good, annoying, liar“, I’m also human but he missed that one.

Mari Kaimo

Mari Kaimo

Turns out, he didn’t take too kindly to me being in the group. He tagged Pastor Green in a post I made about the New Testament and said I’d be answered by him. Well, that didn’t happen. I’m assuming that Pastor Green was busy or knew it wasn’t worth it arguing in the group, either way he made one or two comments and ditched that post. When that plan didn’t go through, I turned my attention to Mr. Kaimo. Skimmed through his comments and what do you know? He’s responding to a few comments I made by referencing Jay Smith (of all the people in the world, this is the worst choice anyone can make, he could’ve chosen Santa or the Tooth Fairy and that’d be a better selection), and to make things worse he’s responding to my comments with three decades old information. I noticed he was online, so I quickly replied on the post he made to his comments. Then came the usual insults, “you’re condescending“, “you’re annoying“, “you claim you’re forever 22“, “no one cares what you have to say“, etc, etc. I found his retorts a bit funny, and a bit expected given he’s friends with missionaries who practically hate every bone in my body.

Then he said something. He said he just began to read the journal’s paper I had referenced. He was disagreeing with me, calling me a liar, saying I was wrong and 200 comments later – was just beginning to read the very thing he said I was wrong about. Mind you, that’s 200 comments with fellow Christians brandishing my statements as lies, untruths, deceits, etc. I had shown up after all of that, and he hadn’t read a single word of the study I was referencing. When I asked him how he could call me a liar based on what I had quoted and cited, when he hadn’t read the journal’s paper at all, he jumped on the name calling bandwagon again. That taught me a very important lesson – we all choose our battles. He wasn’t disagreeing with me because I was wrong, he was disagreeing with me because I was Muslim. I’ve met many Christian Missionaries like this in my life and there are some I respect for their honesty and there are others that do not have a single bit of honesty or integrity in them. With the latter type, one thing matters, only one goal – their voice must be heard regardless of what is being said or of what consequences will be gained from it. I didn’t want to be unfair in my assessment of him, so I sent the link of the discussion to two missionaries whom I’ve written about before and both gave the response that he was, “uncouth“, “arrogant” and this was the most interesting one, “a total waste of your time“.

I’m not one to prejudge, he says he’s going to, “read the paper many times” before replying to me. Considering he disagreed before he read the paper, could I really expect him to agree with me after reading it? That’s a long shot, but I’ll take a look at what he approaches me with later today but I’m not expecting much. Other statements of his have been that a change in orthography is corruption, so I asked if the change from scriptio continua majuscule in Greek to miniscule was corruption too – he didn’t reply to that. He also stated that addition to diacritical marks to a text is corruption because no one knows what the text can say without them, so I asked if some of the early Greek manuscripts of the New Testament are corrupt without them – as they too have no diacritical marks, or if when Al Jazeera posts their news in Arabic that no one can know what they say since they don’t use diacritical marks, I got no reply except that I was being, “condescending“. More or less likely, given what he’s said before and his actions thereafter, there’s really no point in me investing my time on a person with such decorum or lack of integrity. I’ll post another article based on what he does next but last night’s experience with him gives me the impression that this was the last of my exchanges with him. Other than that, I’m looking forward with earnest to Dr. Shabir’s debate (see my previous post) and most likely I’ll be waking up when that debate is just about to begin and I’d rather spend my time watching that debate than having an angry missionary lambaste me for not being Christian or explaining to me that the development of orthography is corruption of a text (I genuinely laughed at this claim). Here’s Codex Sinaiticus’ Manuscript of the Gospel of Matthew, guess what we don’t see? Diacritic marks! Or spaces! I guess that’s corruption of the New Testament for Mr. Kaimo as he claims that’s how the Qur’aan is corrupted. Look at this 12th century New Testament Manuscript with diacritical marks, I guess this one must not be corrupted. If anyone thought I was kidding, here’s his post using a slide from Jay Smith (again, this is funny), with alleged information from 1981 – that’s what, three decades? More importantly his claim on diacritical marks is not a quote and is not cited (did we expect better from a guy using Jay Smith’s work?):

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When I first saw this, I knew it couldn’t get worse than this. As it turns out, I was wrong, very very wrong. So here’s where it gets worse. After replying to him with the responses I mentioned above, these are his replies. My “assertions” from a cited paper he had yet to read was responded to with what he “knew” of the issues by using a Jay Smith presentation slide with unreferenced information from 1981. Somehow citing a paper from 2010 is wrong in his eyes, despite him starting this post based on me citing that paper in the first place. Suddenly, the paper he’s yet to read is now not the “be all or end all” for his claims (that’s mostly because he couldn’t respond to what I replied to him with):

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The height of absurdity was then reached, when he criticised me for using the paper – the same paper he says I lied about and was yet to read himself:

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I wasn’t sure how to respond, then he threw in an insult about me not reading the Bible to which I responded with Jesus’ statements in Matthew about judging people. So this is where I lost all faith in him being able to hold an honest discussion. He starts a post without me, about me quoting a few papers, tells me those papers are wrong, then says he has yet to read them, and finally complains I haven’t referenced other papers that he does not have and has not yet read. Can anyone explain to me his reasoning? If you want to see him admit he’s yet to read the paper, yet complains about me not citing others, here’s his comment:

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So let thank sink in for a moment. He hasn’t read it through once, disagrees with me, wants me to cite other papers he’s yet to possess and is complaining that I need to quote other papers that he doesn’t know of, as all he knows is what Jay Smith put in a slide from information unreferenced but dated to be from 1981. This is a perfect example of why I no longer invest my time on dishonest missionaries who use insults like this:

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I have no idea who his wife is, or why he brought her into the conversation. I’m not even sure that’s an insult. If the wife of this guy dislikes me, I’ll gladly take that as a compliment – I’m not sure how else he’d want me to take it. At the end, he said it was 4 a.m., and he was off to bed. That’s before calling me socially awkward and advising me how not to be socially awkward:

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Somehow I don’t think a guy who randomly uses his wife as a means of argumentation is much less socially awkward than an introvert such as myself…….Alas, the “conversation” came to an end:

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I guess before he replies to me, after reading the paper from the journal he disagreed with 17 hours ago, he’s going to give us a lovely story about when he was a late bloomer. In all honesty, I don’t think he’s yet to bloom and I cannot take him seriously. I hope he’s just trying to be funny, sarcastic or anything other than what he has presented of himself already. Thank God there’s a Dr. Ally debate with Jay tomorrow, I need something, anything with intelligence to keep me sane after that mess of a conversation!

and God knows best!

Debate: Which is the Word of God – Dr. Shabir vs Jay Smith [Today, Live Stream]

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Dr. Shabir faces off against Jay Smith on a popular topic: “The Bible or the Qur’aan: Which is the Word of God“. Hosted by E&AM in Toronto, Ontario (Canada). It’s roughly 14 hours from the time of this post. You can check the Facebook Event Page here. Times for New York, London, Trinidad, Toronto, LA and Mumbai are listed below.

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Times for Saturday 27th for all locations except India below:

  • Trinidad:     2:30 PM.
  • New York:   2:30 PM.
  • Toronto:      2:30 PM.
  • London:       7:30 PM.
  • LA:              11:30 AM.
  • Mumbai:      12 AM. (Sunday 28th).

If your time zone is not listed above, check World Time Buddy and search for your city, followed by choosing 2:30 PM as the time in Toronto for a quick and easy conversion. If you are still uncertain about the time for the start of the event, click the Live Stream’s link below and there is a timer counting down to the start of the event.

Link for Live Stream (free): http://new.livestream.com/accounts/291710/events/3400440

and God knows best.

Can Muslims be friends with non-Muslims?

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Ustadh Tabraze Azam of Seekers Guidance answers this popular question:

Question: Assalamu alaykum,

I have been recently highly agitated by what I have read in Islamic sources about friendship between Muslims and non-Muslims. Essentially what I have understood is that friendship with non-Muslims is wrong. That so much as eating or chatting with non-Muslims is haram. There is also fatwas insisting that close friendship with non-Muslims is haram.

This seems horrible to me, as well as bigoted. Why is this haram?

Answer: Wa alaikum assalam wa rahmatullahi wa barakatuh,

I pray that you are in the best of health and faith, insha’Allah.

No, it is not unlawful nor disliked to befriend non-Muslims. Thinking otherwise is a misunderstanding of divine revelation and prophetic guidance.

The Qur’anic Verses

Allah Most High says, “The believers should not make the disbelievers their [supporting] allies rather than other believers– anyone who does such a thing will isolate himself completely from God– except when you need to protect yourselves from them.” [3.28]

And, “You who believe, do not take the Jews and Christians as [supporting] allies: they are [supporting] allies only to each other. Anyone who takes them as an ally becomes one of them– God does not guide such wrongdoers.” [5.51]

To read the full answer and its explanation, click here to go to the Seekers Guidance website.

Spot an Error?

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Sometimes we make mistakes when writing or citing sources. Most of the time we realise when an error has been made and we correct it, other times we only see an error when someone brings our attention to it. So, if you spot an error, send us an email or comment on the post and we’ll fix the error as soon as is possible. Errors don’t have to be spelling mistakes or wrong references, we could make factual mistakes as well – like when I referred to Erasmus as an atheist because I had read he was a humanist, or that time I referenced a wrong commentary but posted the right link to it. Most importantly though, sometimes I may post an article when provoked by someone’s dirty attack on Islam, like that image I posted earlier this week of Dr. Michael Brown – sure, he was wrong for attacking Islam but it was also wrong of me to make my response personal and so I’ve since edited that article.

As the site continues to grow, the greater the responsibility we have to ensuring that what we post is both accurate and respectable. This is a learning experience for all of us. We learn a lot from our readers who send us emails on articles we’ve posted or when they’ve shared one of our photos 500 times on Facebook. Every email sent, most comments posted are usually read but we can’t always reply to them all. So your voices are being heard, we do listen to our readers but we don’t always have the time to respond. With that having been said, fixing errors is our top priority as we want to provide you with accurate, factual and responsible information to help you understand Islam and defend Islam in a manner pleasing to Allaah.

So, if you spot an error, let us know!

and God knows best.

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