Dividing Infinity Into Three


During a discussion on Facebook, a Christian happened to mention that God is one, infinite and indivisible. Then he mentioned God was shared by three persons. For a moment I wasn’t sure what I had read. How was it possible that God was one, infinite and indivisible, but at the same time three and divisible (shared)? I think this meme summarizes the confusion I had.

14gsga

So, any takers? How do I divide infinity into three?

and God knows best.

29 comments

  • I learnt in school that any number divided by infinity is zero.But infinity divided by anything will still be remaining as infinity. Brother Ijaz I think you should do less facebook. One day these desperate trinitarians will make you mad with their new daily formula for proving trinity.LOL!!

    RAMADAN is ahead so don’t take stress 🙂

  • remember this 10 years ago on bismikaAllahuma forums

  • Shaaz you beat me to it. I do not like using maths to prove God but the concept of infinity and the Trinity do go nicely together.

    > How was it possible that God was one, infinite and indivisible, but at the same time three and divisible (shared)?

    The Christian never said “divisible” but “shared”. You have changed his words. The Christian understanding is that all three persons share fully in the one divine nature. Limiting a description of God solely to the oneness of his essence is completely inadequate. There is more to God that this.

  • Thanks for your reply Samuel,

    “The Christian never said “divisible” but “shared”. You have changed his words.”

    http://www.thefreedictionary.com/share

    I hate to break this to you, but share means to divide something, break it into parts.

    “The Christian understanding is that all three persons share fully in the one divine nature.”

    – The HS and the Son don’t, they are ignorant. There are layers to the divine “nature” with inherent hierarchies within that nature, the Father *sends* the Son, etc. It’s like Christians don’t grasp the meaning of “share” and “fully”. Why is that?

    ” Limiting a description of God solely to the oneness of his essence is completely inadequate. There is more to God that this.”

    – I read the Bible, haven’t seen Jesus say this. It takes a special type of Christian to refer to the concept of God as believed in by all the Prophets, the Shema Yisrael, as being “inadequate”. I rather follow Adam, Noah, Abraham, Isaac, Ishmael, Moses and Jesus’s understanding of God, than a 21st century man who thinks the Prophetic understanding of God is “inadequate”.

  • samuel, are you saying that each person in trinity “share fully ” in having access to the same divine nature?

    or are you saying that each person, by hIMSELF , is all seeing, hearing and knowing ?

    if you have something “fully” then it makes no sense that it is SHARED

    if i share the same eyes as your son and see the same stuff your son sees, then i am dependent on your sons sight. on the other hand, if i am able to see your sons sight, your sons face and INDEPENDENT in my sight, then can i say , i am sharing your sons sight?

    you don’t really believe that one eye is STRETCHED across 3 persons, do you?
    you believe each person has eye of its own

    so how are they sharing?

    you believe each person see the other person and at the same time know the sight of the other, but how are they sharing?

    so admit that you believe one eye is STRETCHED across 3 persons, because this is called “sharing”

    also

    if jesus is “fully god”

    then did “fully god” become embryo in mary’s womb?

    if not, then how much god became embryo?

    is some, then is god-embryo sharing SOME god?

  • I’m pretty sure they use the word sharing without meaning sharing. It’s called obfuscation. Typical.

  • Christians often use–or abuse–the phrase, “you’re limiting God” when the notion of trinity is questioned. Their aim being that if one insist that God is One in every definition of the term–as Muslims believe, then that “limits” God somehow from doing what the new testament god supposedly did in the bible–having a son, having that son share a body with a human being, being 3 by all practical and logical understanding of what 3 entails, yet remaining one–yada yada yada–Christian theology. No, what we, who believe in the Oneness of God, do is we limit beings who are NOT God from ever becoming God. In the christian theology God is one being manifested in three “persons.” Yet, there is not a single good reason to believe that God must necessarily be manifested in 3 persons; there aren’t any good reasons to believe that God cannot be manifested in 4 beings or in 4 billion persons. There is nothing intrinsically significant, special, consequential or cardinal about 3 that God should be ONE yet manifest in THREE persons. An analogy should shed some light on why it’s dangerous–aside of being inane and false–to believe that God’s Oneness can be “shared” by separate persons. Suppose time travel is possible, and in the distant future one particular maverick breaks whatever laws they have set up against time travel and comes to our present time. She, through the use of superior technology, can work miracles and wonders. She may even be able to raise the dead. Now if she claims she is “the daughter of God, the 4th person through which the Oneness of God is manifested, just like he manifested Himself through Jesus and the Holy spirit.” There isn’t a single good reason why she should be doubted by Christians who believe in the trinity. If the response of the Christian is going to be “well we can reject that person because the new testament never indicated or even implied that God is anything more than a trinity,” then neither did the Old Testament imply or indicate that God is a trinity, so that’s an invalid reasoning. The inanity of the trinity need not be explored through a hypothetical time traveling scenario. The Hindu can also claim that his millions of gods and goddesses are no more than a manifestation of that One God “we all believe in.” There is not a single good reason to reject that Hindu claim if you are a Christian, as they do not like to “limit God” after all. The Islamic understanding, belief, and acceptance of the Oneness of God absolutely will limit such dangerous and blasphemous encroachment on God’s Sovereignty, and absolute Oneness.

  • green,

    can you tell me about your beliefs because i am confused.

    1. you say that divine CONSCIOUS being made UNION with CREATED and FINITE flesh

    2. did CREATED and finite flesh HOLD the weight of your god?

    3. how much of your invisible god was HELD by the created meat?

    4. if your god is omnipresent ,does that mean he was omni-p in the flesh of MOSES when moses parted the sea?

    5. when your god makes union does that mean he INCREASED himself ? addition means to INCREASE

    6. how is it that god can be HELD, but he can’t MIX/fuse with created flesh i.e, why can’t your god become CREATED ? is he powerless to become created?

    7. if there is no fusion between flesh and invisible god, then explain what does union mean when nothing is UNITED

    noun
    1.
    the act of uniting two or more things.

    tell me how you have UNITY when there is SEPARATION between flesh and invisible ghost of your god??

    8. since you boxed god in a body, you already REDUCED him to a body. explain how you believe you have god walking on earth when really you have UN united flesh walking the earth ?

    9.

  • green,

    1. is all god in UNION with a created body?

    so is it fine to say

    god + 1 ?

  • > I hate to break this to you, but share means to divide something, break it into parts.
    > if you have something “fully” then it makes no sense that it is SHARED

    Children share one mother.
    My family shares one car.
    Spirits may share one human when that human is possessed.

    Ijaz, you changed the words of what the Christian said to make your point.

    > – The HS and the Son don’t, they are ignorant.

    The Son is the glory and word of God, the Spirit is the breat of God. These descriptions are not of degrees of divinity.

    > ” Limiting a description of God solely to the oneness of his essence is completely inadequate. There is more to God that this.”

    > – I read the Bible, haven’t seen Jesus say this. It takes a special type of Christian to refer to the concept of God as believed in by all the Prophets, the Shema Yisrael, as being “inadequate”. I rather follow Adam, Noah, Abraham, Isaac, Ishmael, Moses and Jesus’s understanding of God, than a 21st century man who thinks the Prophetic understanding of God is “inadequate”.

    The Shema of Israel has got nothing to do with tawheed because Yahweh has an image, is the Father and has a son, and describes himself in terms of unity and diversity.

    Our descriptions or God include essence, attributes and person. Just taking one of these is inadequate as Islamic scholarship over the nature of Tawheed shows.

    > if jesus is “fully god” then did “fully god” become embryo in mary’s womb? if not, then how much god became embryo? is some, then is god-embryo sharing SOME god?

    Yes, Jesus is fully God. God always limits himself in any dealing with creation yet remains fully God.

  • Adam

    > Yet, there is not a single good reason to believe that God must necessarily be manifested in 3 persons;

    Why 3? Why 1? Why anything. We need revelation. God is transcendent and we know nothing about his person except what he reveals. An interpersonal God is truly self-sufficient.

  • > 1. you say that divine CONSCIOUS being made UNION with CREATED and FINITE flesh

    Christians are saying that whenever God interacts with his creation in any way two natures come together. The incarnation is one example of this. Creation is the first.

    > 2. did CREATED and finite flesh HOLD the weight of your god?

    God expresses his person through a human body as he does through other elements of creation.

    > 3. how much of your invisible god was HELD by the created meat?

    Expressed is the word, and God always limits himself in any dealing with creation.

    > 4. if your god is omnipresent ,does that mean he was omni-p in the flesh of MOSES when moses parted the sea?

    There is a difference between omnipresence and God’s person revelatory dwelling.

    > 5. when your god makes union does that mean he INCREASED himself ? addition means to INCREASE

    It means two natures come together as in the act of creating and sustaining.

    > 6. how is it that god can be HELD, but he can’t MIX/fuse with created flesh i.e, why can’t your god become CREATED ? is he powerless to become created?

    see 5

    > 7. if there is no fusion between flesh and invisible god, then explain what does union mean when nothing is UNITED noun 1.
    the act of uniting two or more things. tell me how you have UNITY when there is SEPARATION between flesh and invisible ghost of your god??

    see 5

    8. since you boxed god in a body, you already REDUCED him to a body. explain how you believe you have god walking on earth when really you have UN united flesh walking the earth ?

    see 3

  • @Samuel,

    Children share one mother.

    Yes, but the children are not born at the same time, nor does the mother care for each child simultaneously. The mother’s time and ability is shared, which is limited. Bad analogy.

    My family shares one car.

    Same problem as above, the car can only be driver by one person at one time. The car does not go to three places at the same time. Bad analogy.

    Spirits may share one human when that human is possessed.

    Are you speaking from experience? (Joking), each spirit in this case would then be limited by action. Again, a bad analogy.

    Ijaz, you changed the words of what the Christian said to make your point.

    Lying is a sin, no? At 1:27 a.m., in response to me the Christian mentioned divisible in his reply. Kindly correct yourself. Should you persist, I request that you explain the issue with both him and I using divisible and shared interchangeably in our discussion. Quite simple, isn’t it?

    The Son is the glory and word of God, the Spirit is the breat of God. These descriptions are not of degrees of divinity.

    This is irrelevant to what I asked. Both the Son and the HS are ignorant of the hour. God is not ignorant, thus there exists a hierarchy. They are not co-equal. It is strange you say these are not degrees of divinity when you claim in the same breathe that the Son and HS are attributes of God. That’s a contradiction.

    The Shema of Israel has got nothing to do with tawheed because Yahweh has an image, is the Father and has a son, and describes himself in terms of unity and diversity.

    The Shema of Yisrael according to the people whose scripture you plagiarized (the Jews), and whose beliefs you developed, would gladly disagree with your statement. They believe YHWH is one Person, YHWH does not suffer or die, YHWH may have an image, but it is invisible, unlike anything that exists. This is the opposite of what Christianity teaches, thus the Shema Yisrael has more in common with Tawheed, than it does with the Graeco-Roman Post-Hasmonaean Syncretism of Proto-Orthodox Christianity.

    Our descriptions or God include essence, attributes and person. Just taking one of these is inadequate as Islamic scholarship over the nature of Tawheed shows.

    Both Jewish and Islamic scholarship considers your understanding of God to be inadequate and false.
    http://hashlamah.com/hashlamah-articles/can-jews-pray-with-muslims-can-muslims-live-in-eretz-yisrael-judaism-says-yes/
    http://www.jpost.com/Magazine/Judaism/May-a-Jew-enter-a-non-Jewish-house-of-worship

    In understanding Tawheed, Jews consider Muslims to be closer to their beliefs and allow worship of Jews in Masjids, whereas with Christianity, they are forbidden to enter Churches as they are houses of idolatry. Ergo, your claims are false, and have been demonstrably refuted en toto.

    Yes, Jesus is fully God. God always limits himself in any dealing with creation yet remains fully God.

    If he is God, why didn’t he know the hour? Why did he hunger, suffer? These are not attributes of God.

  • quote:
    1. you say that divine CONSCIOUS being made UNION with CREATED and FINITE flesh

    Christians are saying that whenever God interacts with his creation in any way two natures come together. The incarnation is one example of this. Creation is the first.


    what do you mean?

    infinite + finite came together ?

    quote:
    > 2. did CREATED and finite flesh HOLD the weight of your god?

    God expresses his person through a human body as he does through other elements of creation.

    so god SHOWED himself by changing his invisible nature into something physical /created ?
    or do you mean your god WAS held by his created flesh?
    or is it simply a ghostly ILLUSION why has no physical properties to it?

    are you saying your god is like a thought and the thought has nothing physical about it?

    quote:
    > 3. how much of your invisible god was HELD by the created meat?

    Expressed is the word, and God always limits himself in any dealing with creation.

    if you say “expressed” do you mean that it isn’t really god but something else? is it an illusion? is it shape shifting illusion?

    .express:
    to show, manifest, or reveal:
    to express one’s anger.

    1. what was it that showed/revealed itself?
    2. if it is 100 % human then did god the invisible being show itself (its invisible nature) by becoming 100 % flesh?

    if god is “expressing” what IN god with divine nature is BECOMING?

    or is it simple illusion ?

    quote:
    > 4. if your god is omnipresent ,does that mean he was omni-p in the flesh of MOSES when moses parted the sea?

    There is a difference between omnipresence and God’s person revelatory dwelling.

    so god was dwelling as physical human being while in moses’ case he remained like ghost/spirit which was not dwelling anywhere?

    can you tell me more about this difference?

    quote:
    > 5. when your god makes union does that mean he INCREASED himself ? addition means to INCREASE

    It means two natures come together as in the act of creating and sustaining.


    so god has come together with the earth because he creates and sustains it?
    can we call the earth

    god-earth?

    what does “come together ” mean?

    do you mean infinite + finite have come together in a physical way?

    do you mean infinite is held by finite

    do you mean it is an ILLUSION which isn’t really there?

    what do you mean?

    > 6. how is it that god can be HELD, but he can’t MIX/fuse with created flesh i.e, why can’t your god become CREATED ? is he powerless to become created?

    see 5

    > 7. if there is no fusion between flesh and invisible god, then explain what does union mean when nothing is UNITED noun 1.

    the act of uniting two or more things. tell me how you have UNITY when there is SEPARATION between flesh and invisible ghost of your god??

    see 5

    i don’t think you have explained yourself.

    8. since you boxed god in a body, you already REDUCED him to a body. explain how you believe you have god walking on earth when really you have UN united flesh walking the earth ?

    see 3

  • “Children share one mother.
    My family shares one car.
    Spirits may share one human when that human is possessed.”

    which means then that you believe that “divine nature” is something EXTERNAL to the 3 persons i.e, they don’t HAVE it, they share something which is not PART of them

    using your analogies , when you say “1 god”

    you mean NATURE which is EXTERNAL

    when you pray, you are simply praying to an unconscious shared nature, right?

  • “Yes, Jesus is fully God. God always limits himself in any dealing with creation yet remains fully God.”

    “remains fully” god and @ the same time remains “limited god”

    green, do you know you have spoken of two different gods BECAUSe your “limited god” is fully conscious of his limited nature or limited powers while your outside god is fully conscious of his unlimited powers/unlimited nature?

    i see two gods here, green.

    i see outside and inside god with major differences.

  • why are christians using confusing language?

    what is the motive for using such language?

    you have a god “expressing” and “dwelling”

    so your god is expressing his physical dwelling? so yhwh converted his invisible stuff into something physical?

    “…God always limits himself in any dealing with creation yet remains fully God.”

    we need to know if he fully experiences as an ignorant learning, remembering and forgetting in its divine persons.
    it is not good to say that your god “express”
    “coming of the two natures”

    since you never refer to jesus the man as “joined nature”
    you call him god (invisible) dwelling as man (visible)
    so spirit BECAMe created/physical

    why is it that i am using clear language to describe to you your beliefs while you are using confusing language?

  • > Are you speaking from experience? (Joking), each spirit in this case would then be limited by action. Again, a bad analogy.

    My analogies work fine. God is unique and therefore no analogy will work at every point. Can you give an analogy of a person who is absolute oneness?

    > in response to me the Christian mentioned divisible in his reply. Kindly correct yourself.

    I responded to what you wrote in your post.

    > This is irrelevant to what I asked. Both the Son and the HS are ignorant of the hour.

    The persons are in an ordered relationship but they all share equally the one essence.

    > The Shema of Yisrael according to the people whose scripture you plagiarized (the Jews), and whose beliefs you developed, would gladly disagree with your statement.

    Rabbinic Judaism is quite different to ancient temple Judaism.

    > If he is God, why didn’t he know the hour? Why did he hunger, suffer? These are not attributes of God.

    This is the genuine humanity of Jesus.

  • mrsonic

    Thanks for the questions. I am sorry but I cannot answer all of them specifically due to time but have tried to address some of the main issues.

    >> Christians are saying that whenever God interacts with his creation in any way two natures come together. The incarnation is one example of this. Creation is the first.

    > what do you mean?

    This is the place we need to get to. The early Christological debates were not actually about Jesus but creation and how a transcendent God can interact with creation. Creation is actually the hardest doctrine. It is harder than the incarnation or the Trinity but modern Christian Muslim debate has not realised this yet. When God creates two natures are connected, How does God interact with creation?

    > “remains fully” god and @ the same time remains “limited god”

    No, it is the distinction between God as he is his transcendent self, and God as he is towards us.

    A Muslim may say that God is all powerful, all knowing, all present, and eternal; he is limitless and therefore cannot be limited to a man, but this does not understand an important aspect of how God relates to us. There is a difference between God as he is in himself and God as he is towards us. Yes, he is all powerful but he does not express all his power towards us; creation itself is only a limited expression of God’s power. He is all knowing but does not make all his knowledge known to us. He is all present yet access to his personal presence is expressed in a local way by dwelling with his people. He is eternal yet reveals himself to us in time. He is the just judge yet we do not see all his justice expressed in the world now but wait for Judgement Day. He is free to act as he wants yet makes covenants to limit himself to a particular course of faithful action, and his faithfulness is seen over time.

    God expresses himself in a true but limited way to his creation. He accommodates himself to his creation so that his creation may know him. This does not at all take away from God’s majesty or limit who he is in himself; it just acknowledges the way God expresses himself to us. God’s accommodation to us is an important foundation for understanding how Jesus is God: God has accommodated himself to us in the man Jesus. This is an important step to discuss with Muslims.

    > why are christians using confusing language?

    We are using technical language to be precise. Islamic scholars do exactly the same thing.

  • This is what happens when you pursue a particular belief system that is at odds with a human being’s innate and natural inclinations for coherent, logical, consistent, and sensible; terrible analogies are formulated which make a mockery both of the human and the Divine. “A family shares a car.” 1. The car is divided spatially and temporally. Each time a member of a family drives that car, it isn’t available to the other. If the family members share it at the same time, the car is without doubt divided in terms of the space occupied by each member, which isn’t available to the other. If the family is large enough, then there isn’t even enough SPACE left for all of them to share the car at once–again demonstrating “shared” here does mean divided. What does the car represent here? If it represents divinity, then you are pretty much screwed, Sam, because if the divinity the Father is imbued with is NOT available to the son and the divinity the son supposedly possesses is not available to the holy spirit–per our car analogy–then each person here becomes distinct, and by all practical definitions, a separate god. “Children share one mother.” Divinity is a not an abstract phenomenon only used for descriptive purposes. It is the essential identity of God. It separates God from everything else. Motherhood can be shared, brotherhood can be shared, marriage, as an idea, can be shared, tribal affiliations can be shared amongst thousands, race can be shared amongst millions. All these are merely terms representing ideas which do not necessarily exist outside of our predilection for naming things for the sake of simplicity. Divinity is not in NEED of reification; it is the veritable form of “realness.” It is the source of everything that is not divine–including Jesus. A more suitable analogy that would betray the untenable nature of your belief system would be, “motherhood can be shared, a mother can be her own daughter and her own son and they all can share that motherhood at the same time ” That atrocious analogy truly does define and represent the trinity. “Spirits may possess one human.” This last one reeks of desperation. It’s no different than saying “a thousand people can share an auditorium when they all occupy it at the same time…trinity confirmed! now we can all go and play our organs and guitars and praise the lord!” No need to even acknowledge that one beyond this. By the way, Such notions of sharing used to bolster support for the trinity reminds one of the laughable attempts of the atheist to undermine the importance of probabilities in creation. ” Probabilities mean nothing” states the atheist, “after all, each time we shuffle a deck of cards, the probability that it will be arranged in that specific way is one in billions, but they happen all the time!” Yet what the atheist fails to understand, or chooses to, is that his definition of probability is absurd. Now imagine if a person SPECIFICALLY predicted that a deck of cards will be arranged in a specific manner before it was shuffled and then the arrangement was exactly as he had predicted, over and over and over. That is the beauty and miracle of probabilities.


  • He is eternal yet reveals himself to us in time. He is the just judge yet we do not see all his justice expressed in the world now but wait for Judgement Day. He is free to act as he wants yet makes covenants to limit himself to a particular course of faithful action, and his faithfulness is seen over time.”

    “God expresses himself in a true but limited way to his creation. He accommodates himself to his creation so that his creation may know him. This does not at all take away from God’s majesty or limit who he is in himself; it just acknowledges the way God expresses himself to us. God’s accommodation to us is an important foundation for understanding how Jesus is God: God has accommodated himself to us in the man Jesus. ”

    ” Yes, he is all powerful but he does not express all his power towards us; creation itself is only a limited expression of God’s power. He is all knowing but does not make all his knowledge known to us. He is all present yet access to his personal presence is expressed in a local way by dwelling with his people.”


    When God creates two natures are connected, How does God interact with creation?”

    you see ,with these confusing answers i still don’t know what you believe.

    one hindu told me something similar. he told me that different people in different parts of village experience form of a god which makes sense to them. the jews thought that yh-wh dwelt in a bull because they wanted a god who expresses himself in a way which they could relate to.

    you are “one” with the pagans.

    did your god KNOW that he became a LIMITED human being? if yes ,then just like you are conscious of being a weak human, your god too was conscious of being a weak human who learned, forgot and remembered.

    your god was aware of being tempted by sexual thoughts. he experienced them in his mind because he became a human being. satan tempted him for 40 days. this has clearly created an “inside god” and an “outside god” within your religion.

    when a human “experiences” gods mercy, are we experiencing mercy which comes from INFINITE god or are we experiencing mercy which is CREATED?

    a lion may be merciful to its cubs by “veiling ” its power

    the cub is not experiencing a LIMITED version of the lion.

    on the other hand yh-wh’s brothers were smelling, tasting and breathing LIMITED yh-wh and yh-wh was smelling , tasting and breathing his disciples.

    how does god veiling his power imply he can become a man who gets tempted and forget what he knew?a human experiencing an effect imply god can become object of EFFECT and experience his own effect LIKE finite humans do?

    i still don’t see what point you are trying to make. god expresses himself by veiling his power therefore god can , in his invisible being, become a FINITE and created being i.e, WEAK?

    you wrote :

    This does not at all take away from God’s majesty or limit who he is in himself; it just acknowledges the way God expresses himself to us.”

    you are using the word “express”

    was it an ILLUSION
    was it a trick
    was it a ghost
    what does “express” mean?

    do you believe your god’ spirit was HELD in a finite body? how much of it was HELD?

    a human EXPERIENCING an effect implies to you human experiencing a WEAK and CREATED power of a god?

    straight answers please, try to make them clear.

  • > If he is God, why didn’t he know the hour? Why did he hunger, suffer? These are not attributes of God.

    This is the genuine humanity of Jesus.

    but the first question is NOT asking you about “humanity” of jesus

    everybody wants to know what did the invisible person with divine nature START to think? did he forget what it already knew? yh-wh did not start of as a human being, he was, according to your beliefs invisible god with invisible powers.

    so what happen to these powers when one of his minds says , ” i don’t know the mind of my father…”

    this isn’t the flesh, this is the invisible mind not knowing the invisible mind of the other mind.


    here were also other boats with him. 37A furious squall came up, and the waves broke over the boat, so that it was nearly swamped. 38Jesus was in the stern, sleeping on a cushion. The disciples woke him and said to him, “Teacher, don’t you care if we drown?””

    when yh-wh is being held by finite creation his sleep mode cannot detect the danger he is in and requires human beings to wake him up. what i don’t understand is , if your god is a spirit , did he completely become unaware of his surroundings? was the human nature so powerful that it jailed the divine powers to see everything?

  • god is giving out his mercy

    humans are experiencing his mercy

    how does experience of mercy mean that god , like human, becomes weak and experience his own mercy?

    god punishes people

    humans experience his punishment

    how does the experience of punishment mean that god, like human becomes weak and experience his own punishment?

    your religion is SUBJECTING god to his own powers

    so i am right to say you have an inside and outside god.

    you “express” is simply CONFUSION.

    ///////////////////

    green wrote :

    “Yes, he is all powerful but he does not express all his power towards us; creation itself is only a limited expression of God’s power. ”

    expression
    ɪkˈsprɛʃ(ə)n,ɛk-/Submit
    noun
    1.
    the action of making known one’s thoughts or feelings.

    do you mean that we have divine power built into us?
    are we part of the divine God?

    when you make a painting is the painting physically part of your thought which is unphysical?

    so far you are messing about with words without clarifying to lay person like me what you beliefs really mean

    your beliefs are a confusion and you are only AVOIDING answering questions which you are not comfortable to answer because if you do they will bring the inner pagan within you to become exposed.

  • “The persons are in an ordered relationship but they all share equally the one essence.”

    no sense. you are using confusing language again.
    you have a leader who makes his leadership out of “one essence”

    then the two that follow the leader make their following out of “one essence”

    please, tell me something, why are you confusing the brains of innocent people?

  • “the human nature is completely distinct and separate”.

    union:

    : an act of joining two or more things together

    : an act or instance of uniting or joining two or more things into one

    separate:

    verb (used with object), separated, separating.
    1.
    to keep apart or divide, as by an intervening barrier or space:

    please, for the love of God .
    how is the divine nature joined to the human nature when the human nature is kept apart from the divine nature?

    ?

  • Thanks for all the comments. I have read them all but there are now too many, with the time I have, to attempt answer.

  • This will be long, I have 30 minutes to kill. If God “limits himself,” to endure human desire, weakness, passion, ignorance, it’s a bit odd for the christian, then, to accuse Muslims of “limiting God,” seeing how they already see God as a limited being and have no problems with it. The logic is rather absurd and the hypocrisy is all too apparent. If the Christian god is inherently limited as believed by Sam and his friends, then even if Muslims “limit” God for the sake of persevering his Majesty, Glory, Might and inscrutable Wisdom, such a “limiting” is by far more befitting and appropriate of God than a limitation that portrays God as diminutive, weak, ignorant, and compromises his Godhood. See, this is the problem with Christianity, the foundation for it is based on interpretation of text and by ideas and constructs spoken by everyone BUT Jesus himself–Christianity’s God. How odd that God came down in flesh, limited himself, walked amongst the lowly, the oppressed, endured their humility, fully being cognizant that he is God, and that humanity’s salvation is invariably and inextricably dependent on this very narrative: That Jesus is God, yet he seems all too human because he himself limited himself, ultimately he dies and rises from death to save humanity from the torments of hell–yet he forgot to TELL ANYONE about it! We would not have this discussion if Jesus–who apparently is God–knew ENOUGH about his role on earth as a self-limited man-god, and simply told one of his disciples, a fisherman, a person who desired to know the means of entering the kingdom of God, “Verily thou doth witness upon my brow ignorance and weakness through ardor, fury, and passion, Know that I, Jesus, am God, know thoust then that I, even I, Jesus the Messiah, will suffer shame and taste death, for salvation is only for those who art washed and purified by my blood.” Yes, Jesus was not only ignorant of the figs, of the hour, but of his very role as Yahweh in flesh who was sent to die and resurrect so that Samuel Green, Sam shamoune, David Woods, Christian-prince, etc. can walk for eternity with him in paradise. In the Old Testament, God’s role was not at the mercy of textual interpretation, his Edicts, Commands, His exposition of who He was, is, will be, were all laid out clearly for the Israelites. He was the Creator of the universe, He was One, He must be worshiped, His Oneness must be acknowledged, understood, accepted for all eternity. Boy was he not shy or demure about his Pride, Might and Wrath! The same in the Quran: God is One, He MUST BE WORSHIPED, his Oneness is not up to discussion and negotiation, every atom of the universe is contingent on His Will. What happened with Jesus? Okay let’s say God limited himself so on “certain occasions he was ignorant,” why did he forget to reveal his true nature to his disciples, his friends, his mother, his followers? The God of the Old Testament did not waste a single moment–the exact same pattern is seen with Allah, in the Quran–to inculcate and hammer into the hearts, minds and souls, that He is GOD, and HE must be Worshiped. Poor old Jesus, who had ever reason under the sun to tell people that he WAS God, never did! Remember that Jesus was a human, every single human saw him in human form, he absolutely needed to repeatedly proclaim his Godhood, otherwise people will suffer through tremendous confusion! He never did. He leaves it for unknown authors, who came decades later, to write about a very short period of his life, so that very amorphic, vague and ambiguous verses–again written by unknown people–will be taken to mean that Jesus is God. Alas, the consequences of Jesus’ ignorance of his role as a man-god are ever present in the Christian mythos today: “See? Jesus said before Abraham I am, oh look he forgave sins..he must be GOD!” God coming down to earth for the first time in human history, living with humans, dying with humans, yet forgetting to tell a soul of his true nature, and how their salvation is to be acquired–through his putative death and resurrection– is precisely why I would reject Christianity and it’s god, even if Christianity was true–which I do not believe that it is. A truly unjust god would remain ignorant of his role on earth, and then condemn all those who reject him based on the lack of evidence for his unspoken divinity and unclaimed method of salvation.

  • “Thanks for all the comments. I have read them all but there are now too many, with the time I have, to attempt answer.”

    okay,

    since jesus has created flesh and you call it “god-man”

    can we call earth “god-earth” because according to christianity god requires to veil his powers?

    do you believe that the earth is the way god has expressed himself like he expresses himself as an embryo in the womb of mary and then develops into a foetus?

  • “If the Christian god is inherently limited as believed by Sam and his friends, then even if Muslims “limit” God for the sake of persevering his Majesty, Glory, Might and inscrutable Wisdom, such a “limiting” is by far more befitting and appropriate of God than a limitation that portrays God as diminutive, weak, ignorant, and compromises his Godhood.”

    whenever i have put the word “almighty” next to the word “god”

    and say

    “did almighty god lose his life for a few days”

    even the corrupted fitra of the christians requires that “almighty” be removed from the word “god”

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