Debate: Sam Shamoun vs Ijaz Ahmad
بِسۡمِ ٱللهِ ٱلرَّحۡمَـٰنِ ٱلرَّحِيمِ ,
On the 28/01/2013, I entered into the room “Why Jesus is the only way“, on Paltalk. Sam Shamoun had a friend named Millie who recorded the impromptu debate, I pray that Sam stays true to his word and uploads the entire debate on Youtube as he claimed he would! In the room, I found Sam Shamoun just about to begin speaking on John 17:3 and the objections to it. Praise be to Allaah, jut a few days ago I published an article refuting Sam Shamoun on the very same topic! Unfortunately, Sam immediately dotted me (dotting on Paltalk disables the user from being able to write text or to speak via the microphone to the room), in essence he intentionally stopped me from refuting him by stopping me from being able to respond to him.
After a moment or two, he undots me (thus allowing me to write text and use the room’s microphone) and decides to ask me a question. Before he does this, he insults me as a 20 year old pagan black stone worshipper, and mocks me in various ways. It needs to be noted that not once did I call him any names, I did not verbally abuse or curse him and I did not write any insulting speech towards him, thus Sam Shamoun saw it fit as a practising Christian to mock, insult, curse and abuse a 21 year old kid. He then posted the following verse of the Qur’aan:
Exalted is He who took His Servant by night from al-Masjid al-Haram to al-Masjid al-Aqsa, whose surroundings We have blessed, to show him of Our signs. Indeed, He is the Hearing, the Seeing. – Qur’aan 17:1.
Now, Sam Shamoun is unfamiliar with me, he does not know how far my knowledge of Islam goes, so he asks quite a silly question, perhaps assuming that I did not know Arabic. He asked, where does the Qur’aan mention Masjid al Haram or Masjid al Aqsa in this verse, he believed it to be an inserted translation, an assumption and that those words, “Masjid al Haram” and “Masjid al Aqsa” were not actually part of the ayah itself. Unfortunately for Sam, I read and write Arabic, so I simply read the Arabic of the verse, which mentions the words specifically:
سُبْحَانَ الَّذِي أَسْرَىٰ بِعَبْدِهِ لَيْلًا مِّنَ الْمَسْجِدِ الْحَرَامِ إِلَى الْمَسْجِدِ الْأَقْصَى الَّذِي بَارَكْنَا حَوْلَهُ لِنُرِيَهُ مِنْ آيَاتِنَا ۚ إِنَّهُ هُوَ السَّمِيعُ الْبَصِيرُ
I believed I left out the word ‘Israa’ in an attempt to be brief since he repeatedly dotted me (prevented me from answering him). When he realised I could read the Arabic and that the words actually existed in the Arabic, he changed his question. He said the Qur’aan says that its verses are fully explained and detailed, referring to this ayah:
[Say], “Then is it other than Allah I should seek as judge while it is He who has revealed to you the Book explained in detail?” And those to whom We [previously] gave the Scripture know that it is sent down from your Lord in truth, so never be among the doubters. – Qur’aan 6:114.
His next question was, if the Qur’aan is fully detailed, where does it mention:
- That Masjid al Haraam is in Makkah.
- That the Pagans were the Pagans of Makkah.
- That Masjid al Aqsa is in Jerusalem.
To answer the first two, I referenced the following verses:
How can the Mushriks have a treaty with Allah and His Messenger? Except those with whom you made a treaty near Al-Masjid-ul-Haram . Then, as long as they remain straight with you, you too remain straight with them. Surely, Allah loves the God-fearing. – Qur’aan 9:7.
The logic being that the only Pagans to make a Treaty with Muhammad (peace be upon him) at the holy place where fighting is prohibited is known as Masjid al Haram. Also see Qur’aan 2:190-194 for context of this.
Have you taken the serving of water to the pilgrims and the maintenance of Al-Masjid-ul-Haram as equal to (the acts) of one who believes in Allah and in the Last Day, and carries out Jihad in the way of Allah? They are not equal in the sight of Allah. Allah does not lead the wrongdoing people to the right path. – Qur’aan 9:19.
The logic being that the place where fighting is prohibited is at the Holy Sanctuary known as Masjid al Haram in Makkah and this is where the Pagans were located as they respected it as a Noble Sanctuary, refusing to fight there during certain months and at which pilgrims from throughout Makkah came to fulfil their religious rights. Unless there is some other Noble Sanctuary not in Makkah where pilgrims came to perform sacred rights and fighting was impermissible to be done at, Sam Shamoun has more than duly been refuted. Yet, I persisted:
And it is He who withheld their hands from you and your hands from them within [the area of] Makkah after He caused you to overcome them. And ever is Allah of what you do, Seeing.
They are the ones who disbelieved and obstructed you from al-Masjid al-Haram while the offering was prevented from reaching its place of sacrifice. And if not for believing men and believing women whom you did not know – that you might trample them and there would befall you because of them dishonor without [your] knowledge – [you would have been permitted to enter Makkah]. [This was so] that Allah might admit to His mercy whom He willed. If they had been apart [from them], We would have punished those who disbelieved among them with painful punishment
Certainly has Allah showed to His Messenger the vision in truth. You will surely enter al-Masjid al-Haram, if Allah wills, in safety, with your heads shaved and [hair] shortened, not fearing [anyone]. He knew what you did not know and has arranged before that a conquest near [athand]. – Qur’aan 48:24, 25, 27.
Here, the verses clearly indicate that Makkah is Masjid al Haram and that the Pagans of the previous verses were those who opposed the Messenger at the Sacred Masjid were the Makkans who prevented them from accessing the site of the holy pilgrimage. Clear as day to any literate person, save for Sam Shamoun. Sam decided to claim that verses 24 and 25 were disjoint and void of their immediate context. In other words, what verse 24 was referring to, is not what verse 25 referred to. As such Sam shot himself in his foot, as this is known as contextual analysis, one verse leads into the other, hence why they are numerically labelled. I’m sorry for Sam, but when he reads two sentences, one right after the other, does he always assume they are disjointed and not related? As a counter question, I asked him, the the Makkans knew that Masjid al Haram was not at Makkah, why, during his tenure as the Prophet or during the early days of Islam, did they not point out his mistake? That Makkah was not the site of a Holy and Inviolable place as the Qur’aan mentioned? Surely, if he made such a major error, atleast one Makkan would have noticed and publicized this about him.
Unfortunately for Sam, he lost his temper, began to insult me and shout ‘al Maseeh al Akbar’, to which retorted, ‘that simply means the Greatest Messiah, and I as a Muslim accept the only Messiah of the Qur’aan to be greater than any other Messiah’. At this point, Sam further lost his temper, began to curse, mock, insult and dot me. Promising he would never allow me to speak in the room again and then went on a rabid tirade and abuses towards me.
I am awaiting Sam to upload the unedited debate and I would love for him to explain why:
- He repeatedly stopped me from speaking.
- Cursed and abused a 21 year old, unprovoked.
- Mocked and jeered at me.
- Why he broke a basic rule of reading comprehension, i.e. contextual analysis.
- Why he denied the words Masjid al Haram and Masjid al Aqsa are in Qur’aan 17:1.
- That if he ‘won’ such a debate, why did he have to stop and block his opponent from speaking.
- Would his decorum be justified in a public debate?
- Would he choose to physically prevent his debate opponent from speaking in a public debate?
Sam Shamoun got served and I pray he uploads the unedited debate, I’d love for him to show just how much a 21 year old Muslim on post-op pain medication, can whoop him.
wa Allaahu ‘Alam.
May Allāh protect and relieve you.
بِسْمِ اللَّهِ الرَّحْمَـٰنِ الرَّحِيمِ.
Great Job! May this website grow!
It only be explained that Shamoun is guided by demonic excessive anti-Christ spirit, christian love to call it the “holy ghost” deceive people away from the truth
You know that whole exchange was recorded ..right? Are you sure you want to claim you won?
Of course I know it was recorded, I asked for it to be. I’m not claiming I won, I know I won with certainty, similarly Sam will claim he has won. Wonder why he’s stalling with the upload though…..such a sad and angry little man.
Mr CL Edwards, I dont know about the debate with Sam and Ijaz since I have not yet heard it. But what I know for sure is that you got your ass kicked really bad in your debate with Ijaz. Dude, you really should give up and move on to something you are good at. Debating religion is not the thing you are good at, you really suck.
Sam Shamoun’s photo above should suffice!!
There is no god but Allāh. Muhammad is His slave and messenger. Jesus is His slave and messenger.
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You have not answered me yet…is the Masjid al Haram the Ka’bah according to Sura 17:1?
According to Quran 16:43 and 21:7, we should “ask the people of knowledge,” and who is more knowledgable than the Prophet (p) in regards to the Quran?
A silly man once came to one of the four Imams and asked the same silly question of Sam Shamoun, but he went on to ask where the Quran says how to bake bread! So the Imam replied with this verse:
“So ask the people of knowledge if you do not know.” And he told that man to go ask the bakers who were the most knowledgable about that field!
Sam frequently focused on the Qur’an’s claim of being a book with all the things fully explained but CC did not have an answer to the same.
Incorrect, you listened to Sam’s edited version of events/ chopped up audio. In the original discussion, I pointed out that let’s assume that Sam’s understanding of that verse was right, I then proceeded to demonstrate that the Qur’aan answers his claim directly, to which he spoke for over 25+ minutes uninterrupted (and could not refute, instead I was cursed and insulted), whereas I was only allowed to speak for 5 minutes or less, in 30 second bursts before being stopped. He then had to edit the discussion in his favour while leaving out for 2 minutes of me explaining. Sadly, this is the type of ‘adult’ he is and I am ashamed that you would support such tactics.
Ijaz, some heathcare professionals have told me they think Shamoun has mental heath problems. Now this is NO excuse for his behaviour. But I hold responsible other Christian spokesmen such as James White and David Wood who encourage Shamoun and appear in public with him. Shamoun probably needs psychiatric assistance. I do not blame him. I blame the others who do not stop his disturbing behaviour.
Psycho Sam needs some shock treatment to get him stabilised. See how far he can understand the verses of the holy Quran. First he quotes chapter 17:1 and then he goes on to chapter 41:3 to say that the verse of the quran are detailed but he refuses to read the complete verse . Let us see the complete verse . A Book, whereof the verses are explained in detail;- a Qur\’an in Arabic, for people who understand;-. See the verse quotes that the verses are explained in detail for the people who understand from here we know that the people who understand are those who understand the background of the verses from Hadith that’s why the Allah says in the Quran 4:59 O ye who believe! Obey Allah, and obey the Messenger, and those charged with authority among you. If ye differ in anything among yourselves, refer it to Allah and His Messenger, if ye do believe in Allah and the Last Day: That is best, and most suitable for final determination. Psychos can be treated at hospitals if u try to debate them they will harass you help them by giving shock treatment otherwise they might not keep their mouthshut . See the kind of arguments they bring , But Allah says in the uran61:8
They want to extinguish the light of Allah with their mouths, but Allah will perfect His light, although the disbelievers dislike it.
It is He who sent His Messenger with guidance and the religion of truth to manifest it over all religion, although those who associate others with Allah dislike it.