Missionary Mishap: Origin Stories of the Disciples


The origin stories of the disciples is perhaps some of the most contentious passages of the New Testament Gospels. Earlier today I had a conversation with Samuel Green on this very topic, which led to the conversation below:

cc-2016-sg-originstoriesofdisciples

One Gospel – Matthew indicates that Jesus initially meets Peter and Andrew beside the Sea of Galilee casting their nets. John 1 disagrees and has Andrew go fetch Peter, bring him to Jesus and there they meet with Jesus near the River Jordan. One version has Jesus going to them (Sea of Galilee), the other has them coming to Jesus (River Jordan). Quite the contradiction!

and God knows best.

9 comments

  • Hi Ijaz
    anyone reading the bible properly can clearly see that these are two occasions.

    Matthew

    Mat 4:17 From that time Jesus began to preach, and to say, Repent: for the kingdom of heaven is at hand.
    Mat 4:18 And Jesus, walking by the sea of Galilee, saw two brethren, Simon called Peter, and Andrew his brother, casting a net into the sea: for they were fishers.
    Mat 4:19 And he saith unto them, Follow me, and I will make you fishers of men.

    notice when this takes place it is after Jesus was in the wilderness 40 days and 40 nights which took after he was baptised by John the Baptist

    John

    Joh 1:40 One of the two which heard John speak, and followed him, was Andrew, Simon Peter’s brother.
    Joh 1:41 He first findeth his own brother Simon, and saith unto him, We have found the Messias, which is, being interpreted, the Christ.
    Joh 1:42 And he brought him to Jesus. And when Jesus beheld him, he said, Thou art Simon the son of Jona: thou shalt be called Cephas, which is by interpretation, A stone.

    This took place BEFORE Matthew 4;18 because in Matthew John has been put in prison whereas in John they had not long been speaking to them about the lamb of God, one of them was Andrew.

    what are you talking about when you say contradiction where and why?

  • i don’t get these people
    how do they know that john knew of 40 day temptation in the wilderness?
    how do they know that john knew all the stories in mat and marks gospel?
    green assumes that jc met his pals in a second meeting when he says “the nets are a later time”
    how do they know that information about johns death reached the unknown person called john ?

    so matthew the unknown christian wants his readers to assume a second meeting when he has his readers listen to the words

    “he saw two brothers…”

    i thought he already knew they were two brothers when he knew about them in the first meeting?
    “for they were fishermen”
    why talk as if you are revealing information to your readers for the first time?

    “come follow me…”

    how do missionaries there is a before and after when writers such as mark and luke are fine with taking stories out of chronology?

  • Hi Mr Heathcliff

    In one text John the Baptist is free and baptising people, in Matthew John the Baptist is in prison.

    Where is the contradiction.

    How they know the answers to your questions? They were all living at that time and together following Jesus, they were not talking about something happened 600 years after the event.

    Maybe Jesus told The disciples he fasted 40 days and nights is that not likely?

    John was a disciple, of course he knows all the stories he was THERE and Jesus taught and the others for three years.

  • Hi DC,

    One assumes that is the timeline, whereas given that none of the other Gospels, or any of Paul’s epistles indicate this timeline, nor any other early Christian document, this view of scripture is a development as opposed to what the first peoples reading them would have understood the scenario to have been.

    As such, those who received MML together or independently, would have only known one timeline, not the Johannine timeline. It should at the last be noted you are assuming that this other timeline existed in some oral form that everyone knew, without a shred of evidence. You’re quite literally anachronistically reading hearsay into the Synoptic Gospels to justify a later timeline that simply shows no evidence of having been known by another Christian community or subsequent document.

    You’re also assuming John the disciple wrote the Gospel, whereas through higher criticism, we know that this is not the case. Too many assumptions are being made to defend your view, whereas we are simply relying in the Gospels themselves.

    Regards.

  • “they were all living together following…”

    look, don’t talk gibberish. read matthews account by itself. where in the language used by by matthew is there indication of a second meeting?

  • Hi Ijaz and Mr Heathcliff

    Let’s look at the verses again.

    In Matthew

    Mat 3:13 Then cometh Jesus from Galilee to Jordan unto John, to be baptized of him.
    Mat 3:14 But John forbad him, saying, I have need to be baptized of thee, and comest thou to me?
    Mat 3:15 And Jesus answering said unto him, Suffer it to be so now: for thus it becometh us to fulfil all righteousness. Then he suffered him.
    Mat 3:16 And Jesus, when he was baptized, went up straightway out of the water: and, lo, the heavens were opened unto him, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove, and lighting upon him:
    Mat 3:17 And lo a voice from heaven, saying, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.

    Jesus then has the wilderness experience.

    Mat 4:12 Now when Jesus had heard that John was cast into prison, he departed into Galilee;

    Now let’s look at John’s gospel.

    Joh 1:35 Again the next day after John stood, and two of his disciples;
    Joh 1:36 And looking upon Jesus as he walked, he saith, Behold the Lamb of God!
    Joh 1:37 And the two disciples heard him speak, and they followed Jesus.
    Joh 1:38 Then Jesus turned, and saw them following, and saith unto them, What seek ye? They said unto him, Rabbi, (which is to say, being interpreted, Master,) where dwellest thou?

    John is not in prison at this time so this is obviously taking place BEFORE John was put in prison.

    So they followed Jesus to his house and spent time there, then Andrew one of John the Baptist disciple told his brother Simon Peter.

    Back to Matthew.

    This is after John has been put in prison but in John it is before John is out in prison.

    Mat 4:18 And Jesus, walking by the sea of Galilee, saw two brethren, Simon called Peter, and Andrew his brother, casting a net into the sea: for they were fishers.
    Mat 4:19 And he saith unto them, Follow me, and I will make you fishers of men.
    Mat 4:20 And they straightway left their nets, and followed him.

    Matthews account doesn’t have to tell us about all encounters the disciples had with Jesus.

    That’s for you to work out but sadly your job is not to read and understand but to find contradictions what a sad life, doing something that the Koran doesn’t even say is a problem.

  • “Matthews account doesn’t have to tell us about all encounters the disciples had with Jesus.”

    what language in matthew 4:18 indicates that the meeting was a second time?
    what hints are there in the gospel of john that jebus had wilderness experience?
    what hints are there in the gospel of john that john the baptist was put in prison?

    why does matthew use language in 4:18 as if it is the first time he has his jesus meet the fishers at the sea?

    in matthew, before jesus BEGIns to preach, where is there indication that he already knew the two? what hints are there?

    WHEN does john go into prison according to luke?

    where is there indication that after your gods baptism ritual in matthew, the two spent the night with him?

    matthew knew that johns pals spent the night with jesus?

    where is the indication of this?

  • “Maybe Jesus told The disciples he fasted 40 days and nights is that not likely?”

    but this is just assumption without any evidence.
    if we apply your maybe on every religious text, we can prove that every text is based on eyewitness.
    textual criticism, source criticism etc would be absolutely useless. we have your “maybe”.

  • Yes, clear contradiction.