This is the full debate between Br. Shabir and James White on the subject of, “Did Jesus Claim Deity?”. Pay close attention to the way James can’t specifically refer to Jesus’ verbatim words to validate his faith, indeed, he seeks to use letters written either in the very late first century or in the very beginning of the second century, Christian Era. He even attempts to use one branch of the ‘Carmen Christi’ theory (which we answered and rebuked him for in our video), aimlessly hoping that no one realises that other theories assert that Paul wrote those very verses. Keep in mind that Br. Shabir clearly indicates that to claim that Jesus claim deity based on Gospels and other forms of literature, is simply attributing deity from the man, deriving a God, from literature never sanctioned nor verified by the man himself. James goes on to demonstrate the natural progression of Jesus becoming a deity after the era of the disciples.
Look out for a few videos on this debate this Easter weekend (2012), insha Allaah.
Data Venia (Latin: With due respect), to James White, this is our official response to his video, which for the most part attempted to demean and propagate conjecture towards Br. Muslim By Choice:
James was quite quick to respond to the last video, it seems as if we’ve put a ‘Jam‘ into the ‘James’, as he’s failed to as much write something defending himself against his blatant dishonesty. As it is said, the blind will lead the blind. Seeing however, that I wanted to give him the benefit of the doubt, I took it upon myself to inform him, personally of our response:
Just to be clear, the confirmation page, after sending the message says:
Therefore, we can truly only address e-mails that are on “topic,” i.e., those that are relevant to the topics contained in the writings of James White, on our website, and in the debates and programs we have produced.
Seeing as the video was in response to his debate, and his subsequent reply posted on his website, by himself, then they should reply to it. Otherwise, James is simply fishing for an excuse to avoid publicly humiliating himself.
This video analyses James White’s evidences, his pivots during his opening statement with Br. Shabir Ally during their debate, “Did Jesus Claim Deity?”. An indepth write up to be published on Monday/ Tuesday 26th/ 27th of March fully explaining, and refuting his arguments. I was planning to write up a full response, but I’m terribly busy, please see our video response to James White instead, thanks.
As a Muslim, I have always loved the Islamic portrayal of ‘Isa (may God’s peace and blessings be upon him). You may call him Jesus, Christ, Messiah, Mashiach, or whatever other titles your faith ties to him, we’re discussing the same great and mighty personality who has played a significant role in both Islamic and Judeo-Christian theology. Clearly his words, his actions and his life have impacted this world in a magnificent and bountiful way. No Muslim can be a Muslim without acknowledging and believing in the message of Christ (Mark 12:29, Acts 2:22, Qur’an Surah Baqarah 2:1-5). Furthermore what is Christianity without Christ? Most certainly our faiths tie us to this spectacular personality. We may disagree alot on his personhood, but we also tend to agree in many areas. Most non-Muslims (Jews, Christians, Atheists), don’t particularly fully understand the Islamic perception of Jesus and it is from this that seeds of discord (and discourse!) have been sown for many centuries, atleast for the most part of the past 1433 years.
This article seeks to highlight one particular area of Christ’s ministry according to the Old Testament and New Testament’s words about him. We begin with a quotation from the Book of Psalms, which reads:
“For the LORD loves the just and will not forsake his faithful ones. They will be protected forever, but the offspring of the wicked will be cut off;” – Bible : Psalms (37) : Verse 28.
Our modus operandi from this verse onwards is intended to imply that Jesus would be the most faithful and the most just person of his time with respect to his life and personhood, whether you consider him to be a God, a man or otherwise. Both Muslims and Christians can agree on this following excerpt from the Gospel, which attributes these words to him:
“…I judge only as I hear, and my judgment is just, for I seek not to please myself but him who sent me.” – Bible : John (5) : Verse 30.
The verses from Psalms (Tehillim) and from John (above), promote the understanding that Jesus was just because he judged according to the rule and law of God and thus since the Old Testament says that God loves and will not forsake such a person, we all can accept that Christ was loved and would not be forsaken by God. However as a Muslim reading the New Testament, the image it portrays of Christ on this very promise allegedly from God in Psalms, is severely diminished, usurped and if I must say, perverted. On one hand, I’m being presented with such a beautiful, warm, good intended portrayal of God’s love for the just and justice, His protection is upon such a person. Yet, when we read the following verses, I am not only left discontented and in awe that the New Testament has forgotten this promise of God, I fully believe that only a person wanting to destroy Christ’s honour would believe such a story:
“About the ninth hour Jesus cried out in a loud voice, “Eloi, Eloi lama sabachthani?”—which means, “My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?” – Bible : Matthew (27) : Verse 46.
“And at the ninth hour Jesus cried out in a loud voice, “Eloi, Eloi, lama sabachthani?”—which means, “My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?” – Bible : Mark (15) : 34.
It is clear for anyone who is purely intended that these stories, depictions of a man forsaken by God, cannot be the man portrayed in John 5:30 and Psalms 37:28. Rather, it reminds of the man later spoken of in Psalms 37:28:
Am I supposed to believe that Christ was a wicked man, cut off from the mercy of God? As a Muslim, it burdens my heart to have to believe that this is what someone who loves Christ could possibly believe. In fact, even Christian scholars have purported that this alleged saying of Christ is out of his character and simply demeans him:
“Some suppose “that the divinity had now departed from Christ, and that his human nature was left unsupported to bear the punishment due to men for their sins.” But this is by no means to be admitted…” – Adam Clarke’s Commentary of the Bible, Matthew 27.
In fact, this has troubled another commentator of the Bible, Matthew Henry in his Commentary of the Bible, says:
“What the complaint was–My God, My God, why hast thou forsaken me?A strange complaint to come from the mouth of our Lord Jesus, who, we are sure, was God’s elect, in whom his soul delighted (Isaiah 42:1), and one in whom he was always well pleased. The Father now loved him, nay, he knew that therefore he loved him, because he laid down his life for the sheep; what, and yet forsaken of him, and in the midst of his sufferings too! Surely never sorrow was like unto that sorrow which extorted such a complaint as this from one who, being perfectly free from sin, could never be a terror to himself; but the heart knows its own bitterness.” – Matthew Henry’s Complete Commentary on the Bible, Matthew 27.
A number of times however, Matthew Henry admits that indeed Jesus was forsaken and that this is no mistake:
“That our Lord Jesus was, in his sufferings, for a time, forsaken by his Father. So he saith himself, who we are sure was under no mistake concerning his own case.” – Matthew Henry’s Complete Commentary on the Bible, Matthew 27.
“That Christ’s being forsaken of his Father was the most grievous of his sufferings, and that which he complained most of. ” – Matthew Henry’s Complete Commentary on the Bible, Matthew 27.
What’s worse is that even an epistle in the New Testaments willingly admits that the one who is punished upon the cross is cursed by God:
“Christ redeemed us from the curse of the law by becoming a curse for us, for it is written: “Cursed is everyone who is hung on a tree.” – Bible : Galatians (3) : Verse 13.
These verses, quotes, scholar’s interpretations and more, really cause disdain for the Muslim who is taught otherwise. Jesus, Christ, the Messiah, may God be pleased with him, to us, was not forsaken by God, was not abandoned, cursed, tortured, abused, mocked or destroyed. To us, he delivered his message (risalah), to his people, the Children of Israel (Bani Isra’il), he did miracles and brought guidance to the masses by God’s will. Islam portrays him not be wretched and forsaken, but worthy of the protection of God, as the Psalms has said. The Qur’an says of this great man that God indeed had protected him:
“When Allah said: “O ‘Isa , I am to take you in full and to raise you towards Myself, and to cleanse you of those who disbelieve, and to place those who follow you above those who disbelieve up to the Day of Doom. Then to Me is your return, whereupon I shall judge between you in that over which you have differed.” – Qur’an : Surah (3) : Ayat 55.
In conclusion, while the NT portrays Christ as being forsaken, cut off and punished by God, the Qur’an makes it clear that Christ was saved, which according to the verse in Psalms, this is what God had promised. Islam promotes and expounds upon the person of Christ as being worthy of God’s mercy (Rahma) and protection, this is what we believe of Christ and this is why we will not believe in something which degrades and perverts his beauty as the New Testament does.
May God convey His mercy and blessings upon ‘Isa (Jesus) the son of Mary (may Allaah be pleased with her) and protect him from the slanders, lies and insults that those who pretend to love him continue to preach. Ameen.
This is a full response to James White’s blatant attempt to attack and misrepresent Islamic beliefs in his missionary video, “40 Arabic Words”. The video examines his point by point statements, on which he collaborated with a Christian artist to spread some understanding of their religion while aimlessly misusing ayat of the Qur’an, mostly to his own disdain. Please see our Articles and Rebuttals section to see our previous dialogues/ discussions with him and the response, to the eventual blog post from his website on one of our articles.
If he does indeed see this, he will most likely attempt to respond. If this is the case, then expect a response, also from us within a few hours, God willing.
Missionary Sam Shamoun is making strides again in deceiving himself and his waning fellowship. In this insulting article, Sam Shamoun sought to solely attack the character and person of Br. Shabir Ally, all the while having to stoop into cheap academics and wanton fraud by misusing the Brother’s words and the Bible’s words. It’s one thing to twist the Qur’an for your own profit, but to twist your own scripture, this has to be a new low for Sam. Let’s take a look at what Br. Shabir has said. These are the Brother’s insights into Deuteronomy 18:18 and Acts 3:
“Now many Christians think, well that, Jesus was that prophet, but obviously he was not. Isa left the scene, and according to Acts of the Apostles in chapter 3 we read that Peter, one of the disciples of Jesus, is saying that Isa will remain in heaven until that time of restoration comes–and he is describing that time of restoration as meaning the time when God will send that prophet! So that means Peter, the disciple of Jesus, the chief disciple, is still expecting that that prophet will come, and then eventually Isa will come back again. So we see clearly that the prophet Muhammad is mentioned in the Jewish and Christian Scriptures. And if they really truly believe in the Scriptures, we Muslims should be asking them to please recognize also the prophet Muhammad, because the book of Deuteronomy, chapter 18, verse 19 says that if you do not recognize that prophet, God will require it of you. In other words, he will bring you to judgment.” (Is Muhammad Prophesied in the Bible? Shabir Ally answers, posted on Sept. 20, 2010)
Now in the Old Testament, it is mentioned that Moses was told by God that God will send either a series of prophets, or another prophet. It’s often translated that God will send another prophet in Deuteronomy chapter 18, verse 18, a prophet like Moses. But some say that what is meant here is not just one prophet but a series of prophets, but is spoken about as though it is singular. We say, okay, suppose it’s a series of prophets? Well then it goes up until Jesus, and many have said, okay Jesus is that prophet. Then we can say why not Muhammad, because Muhammad is very similar to Moses? In fact, Musa came with a law, Muhammad came with a law. They were both prophets and statesmen at the same time; they were governing, and so they have a lot of similarity. If we come to Jesus and say Jesus is like Moses, and Jesus is the prophet like Moses, well then we just need to go one step further and recognize the prophet Muhammad as well.” (Muhammad Prophesied in the Bible?, posted on Dec. 22, 2011)
To expound upon Brother Ally’s argument, we have to turn to the verses which he cites and the explanations for them:
” I will set up a prophet for them from among their brothers like you, and I will put My words into his mouth, and he will speak to them all that I command him.” – Bible : Deuteronomy/ Devarim 18:18
This verse is extremely pertinent to the Islamic and Christian narrative of Prophethood. While in itself, requires an entire discussion, I will try my best to lay the foundation of understanding quite succinctly. The verse in question makes the statement, “…from among their brothers likes you…”. Around this one phrase, many various interpretations can be derived. However we’ll work with the Hebrew words used. What exactly does this phrase mean? You see, had the verse read, “from among you”, there would be no question that it refers to one of the Hebrew tribes of Israel, however it uses the term, “…from among their brothers like you…”, which in hebrew would read, “כּמו כּמו אח (‘ach kemo – kamo)”. The brothers of the Hebrew people are the Arabs, they are both Semitic and as far as history dictates we know of no Prophet after Moses which came from any other Semitic background besides Muhammad {saw}. What is interesting is that if you are an Arab, the word, “akhi”, further solidifies this case, as the word also means, “brother” or “brethren”. From Strong’s Hebrew Lexicon we read:
“a brother (used in the widest sense of literal relationship and metaphorical affinity or resemblance (like H1)): – another, brother (-ly), kindred, like, other.”
Even the phrase “kemo/ kamo (likeness) adds to this discussion, it stirs the fire or so to speak. The verse is literally saying, “a kin who is like you”. In fact, Martin Buber, a Jewish philosopher, sent a letter to Ghandi speaking on the willingness of his Arab brothers to work with the Jewish people:
“The Jewish farmers have begun to teach their brothers, the Arab farmers, to cultivate the land more intensively.” – Jewish Virtual Library.
If anyone even had a doubt that they were ever brothers, as I am sure Sam would try his best to show, he would not only have to refute historical data as provided above, but also scientific data as well. The case therefore, for a Semitic Prophet who is from the people who are “like” the Hebrew peoples, clearly establishes the basis from Judaic principles for an Arab prophet. We now turn to Acts, Chapter 3, Verses 19- 20 which raises further questions:
“Repent, then, and turn to God, so that your sins may be wiped out, that times of refreshing may come from the Lord, and that he may send the Messiah, who has been appointed for you—even Jesus.”
To the untrained mind, the first response would be that this simply predicts Jesus’ coming. However this verse is from Acts of the Apostles, literally, the time of the Apostles after Jesus’ earthly ministry. The problem however, arises when we take a look at other versions of this rendition. The Syriac, Arabic and Ethiopian manuscripts mention Jesus instead of Messiah, whereas the Greek manuscripts differ and simply mention, “Messiah”. Another plausible argument is that Muhammad {saw} isn’t a Messiah, therefore it can’t refer to him, this is incorrect as a Messiah is simply one who is anointed (chosen) and if taken in a divine sense, “anointed by God to do God’s bidding (will)”. With this in mind, we understand that this can mean a Rabbi, a teacher, an Imam, a leader (Romans 13:1-7) and in this case, a Prophet. As a prophet is one who is anointed by God to deliver God’s message to the people. The phrase which stirs our interest is:
“that he may send the Messiah, who has been appointed for you—even Jesus.”
There is a duality here, a Messiah, who could be Jesus, but then, it doesn’t have to be Jesus. Therefore we must ask, who then could God send? When we looked at the various exegeses on this verse, besides pointing out the manuscript troubles, they did indicate the reference to Deuteronomy 18:18. Therefore if Sam Shamoun is claiming that Br. Shabir Ally has in anyway perverted the true understanding of these verses, then he is simply ignorant of what his own religion teaches. This however is common for Sam and thus, I must say I did not expect any better from a missionary, they are after all not highly educated. This is simply a consequence of “Google learning”. Br. Shabir then continues:
“Now it is true that Muslims and Christians claim two very different things about Jesus. Muslims and Christians do believe, and agree, that he was a prophet. Many Christians do not actually realize that this is a necessary part of the Christian proclamation. Regardless of whatever else a Christians may say about Jesus, the New Testament is very clear that Jesus was a prophet. Now Jesus came and he did what he had to do, and said what he had to say, and then he left the scene. Acts of the Apostles in the Bible, in the New Testament that Christians read, tells us something about what the disciples of Jesus said and did after Jesus was gone. This is a very important document, and though scholars believe today that not everything in the Acts of the Apostles is accurate, it nevertheless gives a glimpse into the lives of the Apostles of Jesus after Jesus had left. Now we see in the Acts of the Apostles that the disciples proclaimed Jesus as the prophet like Moses. In Deuteronomy, chapter 18, verse 18 in the Old Testament, a prophet like Moses was spoken about. The disciples here are saying that Jesus was that prophet. That means that Jesus was a prophet! And in that case, Muslims and Christians agree at least that he was a prophet.” (The Jesus Debate: Metaphor, Prophet, Or Son of God?, posted on Feb. 16, 2012)
Br. Shabir is using the oft repeated Christian contention that Deuteronomy 18:18 refers to Jesus’ coming, a Messianic prophecy of sorts, he agrees that we Muslims also have no problem with the Christian understanding of the verse, as we too confirm that Jesus (may Allaah’s peace be upon him) was also a Prophet. However, Sam Shamoun has a problem with Br. Shabir’s confirmation that we do accept the Christian interpretation of the verse if applied to Jesus:
With the foregoing in perspective, doesn’t this show that Ally will conveniently adopt whatever interpretation helps his purpose of duping people into becoming Muslims? After all, these clips seem to indicate that when Ally wants to convince people that Muhammad is mentioned in the Holy Bible he will adopt the interpretation that Acts depicts the disciples as believing that the prophet like Moses was someone different than Christ. Yet when he wants to show that the disciples did not believe that Jesus is God he will then argue that Acts presents the disciples as proclaiming that Jesus is that prophet like Moses!
What Sam has willingly perverted in his understanding, is that Br. Shabir is using the Christian comprehension of the verse, which the quote that Sam himself provided has stated:
“Now it is true that Muslims and Christians claim two very different things about Jesus. Muslims and Christians do believe, and agree, that he was a prophet. Many Christians do not actually realize that this is a necessary part of the Christian proclamation.”
Sam is simply grasping for straws to attack Br. Shabir since he was humiliated a few years ago, by the Brother in a debate:
Sam then goes on what I can only determine to be an emotional tirade, mocking Brother Shabir with insults, while insulting the Qur’an and even to the extent, he was trying to quote the Bible to insult us, but in reality only provided an argument against himself:
““For You are not a God who takes pleasure in wickedness; No evil dwells with You. The boastful shall not stand before Your eyes; You hate all who do iniquity. You destroy those who speak falsehood; The LORD abhors the man of bloodshed and deceit.” Psalm 5:4-6″
This is definitely interesting, as Sam is using deceit in this article. Br. Shabir was referencing the Christian position and Sam’s intentional misread to be used to attack the Brother, is initself deceit. He has based his entire article, which contains atleast 10 insults and abuses, based on his own error:
“Muslim Dawagandist”
“inconsistent and deceptive”
“document his lies, deceptions and gross inconsistencies.”
“Ally will just about say and do anything in order to win an argument or deceive people into believing his false religion”
“exposes Ally as dishonest and deceitful, it is simply silly to think manipulation and deceit will remain undetected”
“Your lies will not only be exposed and punished”
“they will come back to haunt you in this life and destroy your credibility”
He even became so desperate to attack the brother, that he misused Jesus’ words in the Bible:
“You are of your father the devil, and you want to do the desires of your father. He was a murderer from the beginning, and does not stand in the truth because there is no truth in him.Whenever he speaks a lie, he speaks from his own nature, for he is a liar and the father of lies.” John 8:44
I could not contain my laughter after having read this verse, knowing the true context, I really must contest Sam’s ability to be literate. Did he simply do a word search for the words, “deceit” and “lie” and then copy paste them into his article, while wiping the foam from around his mouth after his petulant digression? To put the verse into context, this is one of Jesus’ alleged anti-Jewish remarks:
44 You belong to your father, the devil, and you want to carry out your father’s desires. He was a murderer from the beginning, not holding to the truth, for there is no truth in him. When he lies, he speaks his native language, for he is a liar and the father of lies. 45 Yet because I tell the truth, you do not believe me! 46 Can any of you prove me guilty of sin? If I am telling the truth, why don’t you believe me? 47 Whoever belongs to God hears what God says. The reason you do not hear is that you do not belong to God.” 48 The Jews answered him, “Aren’t we right in saying that you are a Samaritan and demon-possessed?” – Bible : John (8) : 44 – 48.
Hopefully, Sam the missionary, will learn his lesson and change his tactics since his lies are coming back to expose and discredit him.
There’s nothing like using Sam’s own words against him.
It is sometimes very disturbing to see the extreme arrogance and ignorance that self professed scholarship continues to display within Christian circles towards the faith of Islam. Recently, James White authored a piece on his blog denouncing, what he calls the, “exaltation of Muhammad”. In his words, he was “taken aback” and found it “burdensome” to listen to the praises bestowed upon Muhammad {saw}. I find it quite hypocritical that he finds it deplorable that Muslims honour their Prophets. We must remind James, of his own faith, where even when Jesus allegedly died, the disciples sought to honour this great man:
When the Sabbath was over, Mary Magdalene, Mary the mother of James, and Salome bought spices so that they might go to anoint Jesus’ body. – Bible : Mark 16 : 1.
James White really makes me wonder if he could apply the same criteria to himself and his own faith, as he does to Islam. Recall, he made an entire video on this topic, subsequently to only display what I can say is intellectual dishonesty:
I was taken aback at the direct nature of his statements regarding the absolute necessity of loving Muhammad. Indeed, that the Muslim must love Muhammad more than he loves his own soul.
Yet, this same level of love is given to Jesus, because he allegedly commanded his fellow people (Bani Isra’il) in the Bible to forgo their attachments to their families, their lives, their wives and even their children:
If any man come to me, and hate not his father, and mother, and wife, and children, and brethren, and sisters, yea, and his own life also, he cannot be my disciple. – Bible : Luke 14 : 26.
Yet, I have never witnessed James White ever saying that this was disturbing, alarming, wrong, sinful, a woeful attachment. Nothing, no criticism from him on this verse on the relationship that his fellow faith adherents are supposed to engage in. Sir, if you cannot apply the same scales to yourself that you apply to us, then you should not propagate such falsehood.
He continues:
That Muhammad was the perfect man, the balanced man, the greatest man who ever lived, the example for all time, etc. and etc. It was burdensome to listen to, I assure you.
James, would you honestly deny attributing these things to the personhood of the Messiah, Jesus? Therefore, why would it be incorrect for Muslims to attribute the same characteristics to another great human being? We should not be dishonest, especially in this field of work, where we deal with faith, spirituality and religion. We are to be responsible , ethical and morally guided. I really must say I am disappointed in his lack of integrity. If you cannot apply the same scales you apply to Muslims, to yourself, then someone’s morals need aligning.
In another report by Nigerian police, a group of Christians were again, caught in another terror plot to blow up Churches. Major Nigerian media outlet, Premium Times Nigeria, had this report to give:
Nine bombers, believed to be christians, were apprehended this morning when they attempted to bomb a COCIN church at Miya Barkate, 20 kilometres along Jos-Bauchi Highway in Bauchi State.
The suspected bombers are Lamba Goma, Filibus Danasa, Joshua Ali, Danjuma Sabo, Joseph Audu, Simon Gabriel, Bulus Haruna, Yohanna Ishaya and Daniel Ayuba (who was the immediate past Secretary of PDP at Tilden Fulani Ward, Toro LGA, Bauchi State).
The suspects are members of the same COCIN church, Unguwar Rimi, a new and small Christian settlement between Tilden Fulani and Shere Hills. The suspects who were thoroughly beaten by the public were rescued by police and then detained at the Toro Divisional Police Division before they were transferred to Bauchi State Police Command, Bauchi.
At about the same time this morning in the Neighbouring Plateau State, a bomb explosion was reported at the headquarters of the same COCIN church during a Sunday service. The number of casualties are not certain. The pastor of the targeted COCIN Church in Bauchi is Ishaya Izam, who recently arrived on posting from the Cocin headquarters in Jos, which was bombed this morning.
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Calling Christians 
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